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Mr. Patrick Hall (Bedford) rose--
Mr. Heseltine: The hon. Gentleman probably represents some of those very places. The worst housing conditions are to be found in the urban constituencies that have been represented for the longest time, at municipal and national level, by Labour politicians. The conditions in which many people live in public sector housing are scandalous, and the worst scandals are to be found where the Labour party is in charge. How can one begin to argue that that situation should be tolerated under a system called best value? It has nothing to do with "value" and nothing to do with "best"; it is simply about paying off the unions for the support they gave the Labour party in the general election.
Dr. Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) rose--
Mr. Heseltine: The hon. Gentlemen should relax. I listened to the Secretary of State for a long time, so I hope that hon. Members will be kind enough to listen to what I have to say.
The situation is even worse, because the problem does not end with the elimination of the competitive challenge in local government. We are now to have a whole new tier of local government. There are menaces inherent in that. To begin with, it is a menace in itself.
We all know about Labour's desperate position in Scotland. Labour has decided that the only way to deal with its problems there is to pander to Scottish nationalism by pretending that devolution will change something. Once there is devolution in Scotland, there has to be devolution in Wales, although the Welsh do not want it. Then we have to think about what to do in England, and we now have a ludicrous scheme for a mayor in London and, before we know where we are, we are witnessing the regionalisation of England.
The first step is to get rid of English Partnerships, which is an extremely effective weapon to bring about the regeneration of stress areas. No one is keener on that than I or the Government in which I served. English Partnerships is being broken up into regional development agencies. I know exactly what will happen. The advice given to the Secretary of State will be clear. He will be told that strategic thinking is needed--along with academics and unionists, this, that and the other--to create a plan.
By the time the Government seek re-election, the regional development agencies will have been set up, a fortune will have been spent on consultants, many urgent decisions will have been delayed, and a plan will have been produced. The moment a plan has been produced, there will be an election, and whoever becomes Secretary of State will say that he does not like the plan, and wants to have another look at it.
The essence of urban regeneration and regional renewal is site-led. One has to have local projects and policies to deal with specific problems. It is not about a concept for the north-west of England, for example. There is no such thing as the north-west of England, as is clear to anyone
who lives there or knows that part of the country. Manchester does not get on with Liverpool; Preston is a long way north--
Mr. Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield):
Don't forget Macclesfield.
Mr. Heseltine:
Macclesfield leads the bunch.
The way to rejuvenate such areas is to have a macro-economic policy for growth and stability, and then to stimulate local communities. That is why I believe in directly elected chief executives. However, we are to have these great bureaucracies inserted between national Government and existing local government. That means more delay and more cost.
My final point is a chilling one. I am a European. I believe that this country's best interest is served by our playing a leading role in the European Community as it is now emerging. I have believed that for 40 years, and I believe it today as profoundly as ever. We have to fight within Europe for the United Kingdom. However, there is another European agenda, which is a federalist one. It wants to bypass the nation state.
Federalists want to bypass the nation state because they realise that, if they can regionalise Europe, they can exercise a much more pervasive influence from Brussels and through the European Parliament than they will ever be able to do if the nation states are the building blocks of Europe. What the Government are doing--I doubt whether they have even thought that this is what they are doing--is creating a blueprint that brings this country into line with a potentially regionally governed Europe.
It is as sure as night follows day that the Labour party will lose to the nationalists in Scotland. The nationalists will go to Brussels, and Brussels will pay them, as it pays the Irish, to bring about an artificial, short-term prosperity in that country. That is what will happen. The Welsh will say, "If it is good enough for Scotland, why isn't it good enough for us?"
By that time, people in the north-west, the north-east and the south-west will be saying, "What about these lousy regional development agencies? They have no teeth. They are just talking shops dominated by the Treasury in London. We need directly elected regional assemblies, and then we'll be able to go to Brussels, like the Scots and the Welsh, in order to try to get our handout." This place will become increasingly unimportant, as the power is shifted, with the money, towards a regional process in Europe.
Many other European countries are already ideally suited to such a concept. The German lander are a very obvious example, as are the great departments of France. Italy, as a state, was put together only just over 100 years ago. One can see how that concept of Europe is fed by what the Government--wittingly or unwittingly--are doing in breaking up the United Kingdom's coherence.
Ms Bridget Prentice (Lewisham, East):
I welcome the remarks of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health, particularly on raising standards in the health service, which, sadly, have been eroded over the past 18 years. In his absence, I should like to make a plea to him through my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Security. If we must listen to the right hon. Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Miss Widdecombe) speak at such a decibel level, will he guarantee hearing tests for us all afterwards to check whether we have gone deaf?
The theme of the speech of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health was modernisation, not just in the health service but throughout areas in which the Government are trying to make changes. I want especially to address another area in which we can help to create a healthy society: youth justice. If my right hon. and hon. Friends will bear with me, I shall speak on that aspect of the Queen's Speech, despite the theme of today's debate.
I say in passing to the right hon. Member for Henley (Mr. Heseltine) that he clearly does not understand what best value is about. Labour local authorities are quite prepared to ensure that their communities receive the best service, regardless of where it comes from. If he wants to see that in practice, he is welcome to visit my authority of Lewisham.
Two years ago, there was a serious problem with young people causing mayhem in Downham, a part of my constituency. The local police, the council, teachers, community workers and youth workers got together to consider ways in which they could try to solve the problem. A few months before the election, my right hon. Friend the present Home Secretary visited Downham, with me, to see what was being done, and was told that, despite being very proactive, the police were constrained by the length of time that it took to get young people through the courts. I therefore particularly welcome the part of the Gracious Speech that refers to modernising the youth justice system.
Not only do court delays affect the young person who is charged: they have a detrimental effect on the victims, and create frustration and pessimism throughout the community. At the moment, a court can do very little--in fact, nothing--to guarantee the attendance of boys and girls between the ages of 10 and 16. If they fail to attend, the first sanction at the disposal of the court is remanding into local authority accommodation. If they fail to attend a second time, their files are marked "No appearance", and a warrant is issued. The defendant must then be arrested, and the process repeated. In other words, bureaucracy moves very slowly. The young person has the opportunity to commit further crimes, and the local community suffers as a result. The only other option would be for the local authority to apply for a secure accommodation order, although, as we know, they are very few and far between and costly. Local authorities are therefore reluctant to do so.
I encourage my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary in his Bill on youth justice either to instigate further, better and stricter bail conditions for young people that youth magistrates are able to implement quickly, so that young people who break such conditions are brought back to court much faster, or to implement section 60 of the Criminal Justice Act 1991, which has not yet been brought into force, but which provides the courts with
directed, secure remands. As a result, young people who continue to fail to attend court or to comply with set conditions can be prevented from committing further crimes, to the great benefit of the courts, the agencies that support communities, and the witnesses, all of whom are concerned to bring about a much speedier conclusion.
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