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Territorial Army
10. Mr. Robert N. Wareing (Liverpool, West Derby): What assessment he has made of the impact of his planned reductions in TA centres on recruitment into the various cadet forces; and if he will make a statement. [61347]
The Minister for the Armed Forces (
Mr. Doug Henderson): So that recruitment to the cadet forces is not affected by the closure of Territorial Army centres used by cadet units, we shall ensure that suitable alternative accommodation is provided for a cadet unit before it has to vacate its present site. We plan to invest up to £12 million to ensure that those cadet units that have to move are provided with the accommodation necessary to support them.
Mr. Wareing: Does my hon. Friend agree that, when Army cadet units are located in TA centres, there is a greater enthusiasm which comes from being associated with enthusiastic territorials? The cadet unit at Aintree barracks, close to my constituency, is particularly viable and usually has about 150 members. I fear that recruitment in the area will suffer from the proposed closure of the barracks. I should like a review of the situation. Will the £12 million that my hon. Friend mentioned be sufficient?
Mr. Henderson: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I know that it is an important issue in Liverpool. I can assure him that, if a cadet unit has to move, we will guarantee that it will get the same level of support, equipment and buildings that it has at present. Having said that, one has to recognise that there are 1,400 Army cadet units in Britain. Until the statement by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State three weeks ago, 390 of them met at Territorial Army centres. The others met in schools, youth centres and other venues and received support from the Territorial Army and other regular Army units when necessary. Only 90 units have been affected and they have the guarantee that I have just given the House. I hope that that is acceptable to my hon. Friend.
Mr. Peter Viggers (Gosport): Is it really true that the Government are contemplating a cut of one third in the permanent TA staff? Will that not be severely damaging both to the cadet interest to which the hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Mr. Wareing) referred and to the mobility and flexibility of the TA--the one thing that the Government say that they are trying to promote?
Mr. Henderson: We are looking at achieving better efficiency--which is what the taxpayer wants--while providing the same level of capability in our armed forces. That means that sections of our armed forces, such as the TA, have to make changes to achieve a more effective service. Our aim is as simple as that, and it applies to the matters raised by my hon. Friend the Member for West Derby and by the hon. Gentleman. There must be efficiency gains and that will mean some changes in the numbers of permanent staff.
Gulf
11. Mr. Andrew Dismore (Hendon): If he will make a statement on the current security situation in the Persian Gulf. [61348]
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr. George Robertson): Saddam Hussein remains the greatest threat to security in the Gulf. We strongly support the efforts of UNSCOM and the International Atomic Energy Agency to root out and destroy his nuclear, biological and
chemical weapons capabilities and to establish effective monitoring regimes. The willingness of the United States and the United Kingdom to take military action three weeks ago was instrumental in persuading Saddam to rescind his earlier decision to cease all co-operation with UNSCOM. Our forces remain in the Gulf and we are ready to order them into action again if Saddam reneges on his promise of full co-operation.
Mr. Dismore: I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his resolve in standing up to the brutal dictatorship in Iraq, but does he agree that Iraqi non-compliance with UN inspectors has nothing whatsoever to do with Israel, as has been suggested in some parts of the Arab world and indeed some parts of the House? Is he aware that, every time Saddam defies the UN, Israel has to distribute gas masks to its citizens because of the risk of chemical weapons? Does my right hon. Friend agree that dictators such as Saddam and Milosevic in Kosovo take diplomacy seriously only when it is backed by the real threat of the use of force?
Mr. Robertson: My hon. Friend is absolutely right that the likes of Saddam seem capable of recognising the will of the international community only if it is backed up by the credible use of military force. That is why our troops remain ready and willing to act if he will not comply and co-operate with the UNSCOM inspectorate. He has been warned, and I warn him again that there will be no warning the next time if co-operation is not guaranteed. Saddam's non-compliance with the United Nations and his non-co-operation with the UNSCOM inspectors have everything to do with his ambition to dictate to his neighbours and eventually become the major force in that region. We intend to make sure that that ambition is thwarted.
Mr. John Wilkinson (Ruislip-Northwood): Since the threat of force some three weeks ago was rescinded, has UNSCOM made real progress in securing access to the most highly classified and sensitive sites for nuclear and biological weapons and weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? Is it the right hon. Gentleman's view that the Tornado squadron in Kuwait will have to stay there over Christmas and into the new year, for ever and for aye, because, seemingly, Saddam Hussein enjoys sovereign immunity?
Mr. Robertson: Saddam's failure to produce certain key documents has not been a good start after he claimed to be willing to co-operate with the UNSCOM inspectorate. We are watching his actions day to day and will make a judgment based on his performance. The UNSCOM inspectorate is building up to full strength and will, I should think, undertake a number of key investigations in the next few weeks. The rest of the world will watch carefully to see whether Saddam is willing to comply with the undertakings that he gave three weeks ago in the face of overwhelming force; our judgment on that will be swift and will involve no warnings to him.
In the meantime, the RAF Tornados based in Ali al Salem in Kuwait, which were visited yesterday by the Chief of the Defence Staff, General Guthrie, will remain on alert, ready and willing to back up with the threat of force the international community's will. They will remain there over Christmas, which will be a sacrifice for
the service men and for their families; but the outstanding contribution of all our forces in all the different theatres of operations in which they are engaged is a matter of great pride to me and, I believe, to the country.
Mr. Dale Campbell-Savours (Workington):
Have there been discussions between United Kingdom Defence Ministers and American defence officials about support for the creation in the Basra enclave, in the south of Iraq, of a liberated area that is sanctions free?
Mr. Robertson:
The short answer is no. My ministerial colleagues in the Foreign Office have met members of the external opposition to Saddam Hussein's regime to make it absolutely clear to people in Iraq that there would be a better world for them if Saddam Hussein were not the dictator in Baghdad. We will continue to give that message loudly and clearly to the Iraqi people, with whom we have no quarrel. We will redouble all our efforts to ensure that they get the message that humanitarian aid from this country and the international community is available, that they are deprived of much of it by the dictator in Baghdad and that the sooner his reign of terror ends, the better it will be for all of them.
Mr. Julian Brazier (Canterbury):
The Secretary of State has admitted that Saddam Hussein is effectively ignoring the west's wishes. How much longer will we huff and puff? Is it not time, before we say any more on the subject, for us to sit down quietly with the Americans and such other allies as we have to decide what options are really open to us?
Mr. Robertson:
I did not say that Saddam was effectively ignoring the United Nations; I said that, in certain respects, the disclosure of documents was not satisfactory. The UNSCOM inspectors are back and are continuing their investigations; some documents have been handed over. The hon. Gentleman would not expect me to tell the House or the wider world what judgment we will make or the criteria on which we will judge his co-operation with the UNSCOM inspectorate, but we will judge whether he is genuinely co-operating and whether he is genuinely interested in complying with the Security Council resolutions. We will make difficult decisions based on the outcome of that consideration.
12. Mr. David Chaytor (Bury, North):
If a draft text of the revised NATO strategic concept is to be submitted for discussion and agreement to Foreign Ministers at the December meeting of the North Atlantic Council. [61350]
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr. George Robertson):
I expect that NATO Foreign and Defence Ministers will discuss issues relevant to the strategic concept at the December meetings of the North Atlantic Council. Drafting of the revised strategic concept is at an early stage. An agreed text will be adopted by the Washington NATO summit in April 1999.
Mr. Chaytor:
I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. Does he envisage that any changes will be tabled to the section of the document relating to the role of nuclear forces, particularly paragraphs 55 to 57?
Mr. Robertson:
The strategic concept as a whole will be a product of consensus among allies, and some people
Mr. Michael Colvin (Romsey):
When NATO Ministers meet in Washington next year to agree NATO's new strategic concept, what chance is there of European Ministers agreeing on the same objectives? What initiatives can the Secretary of State take, in light of the fact that there is no clearly defined European security and defence identity and no common European foreign and security policy? The European countries share principles, but what initiatives can he take to ensure that European Foreign and Defence Ministers go to Washington not only with shared principles but with a shared identity, to improve the chances of getting agreement on NATO's new strategic concept?
Mr. Robertson:
We approach the 50th anniversary NATO summit in Washington next year with a consensus view that will involve the Americans and the Canadians, as well as the Europeans, in any forward thinking that might take place on the alliance. The hon. Gentleman underestimates the degree of success that there has been in building a European security and defence identity. He underestimates also the importance of the new, strengthened procedures for a common foreign and security policy that exist following the Amsterdam summit, and their implications. European countries will be able to build on and use capabilities when the Americans and the Canadians do not wish to be involved.
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