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Mr. John Redwood (Wokingham): I thank the Secretary of State for his statement, a statement that has as many holes in it as a Gruyere cheese. It has been so well aired that the whiff of it has been on the airwaves for a very long time. It is sad that he took so long to come to the House to tell us what we have learnt from many a leak over recent weeks.
The Secretary of State and his predecessor dithered and delayed for 18 months while the Netherlands and Singapore moved to partial privatisation and Germany decided to privatise--18 months of precious time lost to Britain by the great vacillators.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Mrs. Barbara Roche):
What did you do?
Mr. Redwood:
The Minister asks what we did. The Conservative Government did not have the majority to do what we wanted and the then Labour Opposition would not have supported us. The Labour Government have the necessary majority, and furthermore the Opposition would support privatisation. If the Secretary of State has trouble with the left wing of his party, I promise him the support of Her Majesty's Opposition in doing the right thing by the postal workers of this country.
For the past 18 months, the Post Office has had to watch as its overseas rivals have bought the pick of the businesses abroad to create modern global success stories. Now that we have a policy from the Government, most of the uncertainties remain for the Post Office. Will the Secretary of State confirm that the Post Office's remaining in the private sector means that it can still be raided when the Government need more cash from an easy source? Will he tell us how many hospital waiting lists will grow longer because of his giving away £128 million for next year in this policy?
The Secretary of State says that the Post Office will have to heed Ministers in its five-year plan and its overseas acquisitions--indeed, he says that it is to be cursed with strategic commercial direction from the
Government. Will he now tell us how that can conceivably be good news for those trying to run a commercial business? At best, the Post Office will move from fighting with both hands tied behind its back by the Government, to fighting with both hands tied to the Treasury. Today's is a second-class statement that will not be delivered on time. The Treasury has inflicted a defeat on the Secretary of State, because it knows that it needs to keep its hands on the money.
In pursuit of that elusive popular election to Labour's national executive committee, the Secretary of State has swapped sides, from being in favour of privatisation to being against it. Caving in to the left on the Post Office may be only a down payment on his party ambition--[Laughter.] The Minister of State, the hon. Member for Makerfield (Mr. McCartney), laughs the laugh of victory, because he has got the better of his boss, and persuaded the right hon. Gentleman to give in, in the interests of his wider popularity within the Labour movement. However, the Secretary of State need not have worried about his unpopularity, for it runs so deep that a single half-hearted and ambiguous retreat will not put it right.
For the benefit of his hon. Friends, will the Secretary of State tell the House when he might sell shares in the Post Office? When will he finally make up his mind on that crucial matter? From his statement, may I infer that he can still privatise the whole business? He has not ruled that out, but he cannot yet bring himself to tell his colleagues that he might consider it. Conservative plans for the Post Office would protect small and rural post offices, and would let postmen become shareholders on favourable terms.
Mr. Redwood:
The hon. Lady should have read my article setting out Conservative policy on the Post Office, which was published months ago in the hope that the Government would learn something from it, and get on with the job.
Will the Secretary of State answer the following questions. First, how will major investment and borrowing limits be fixed for the new business that he is to establish? Secondly, how much freedom does he propose for the foreign ventures that are so crucial to success? In his statement, that point is as clear as mud. Thirdly, will he confirm that taxpayers will be liable for any overseas losses that may be run up by the new Post Office company? Fourthly, will he tell us how much money the taxpayer will lose as a result of the changes over a full Parliament, given that £128 million will be lost to the taxpayer next year, which is the first year of the policy?
Fifthly, will the public sector pay policy still apply to the Post Office or not? The statement is completely ambiguous: the right hon. Gentleman says that it will not, but then adds that the Post Office will have to abide by certain guidelines because the Government do not want pay to get out of control. We need to know whether the Post Office is to be free or controlled and, if controlled, how it is to be controlled. Sixthly, how many other changes to the monopoly will be needed to bring us into line with the European Union postal office directive? How will that affect jobs in the Post Office?
Now that the Secretary of State has a policy on the Post Office, it offers us the worst of all worlds. The taxpayer loses money, while the Post Office still does not know
where it stands in respect of investment for the future. That proves that Labour is bad for business. The Secretary of State does nothing while manufacturing collapses; he will not answer questions, and will not debate the issue. Now, he offers the Post Office little certainty. His attitude is as damaging as that of his Cabinet colleague who refuses to back British business abroad, while travelling at the taxpayer's expense. The tragedy is that the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry will not back British business at home, either.
Mr. Mandelson:
The kindest thing that can be said about that response is that it should be stamped "return to sender" and dispatched back to Conservative party central office. It was a very lame response, and we have clearly shot many of the right hon. Gentleman's foxes in our statement. It is a bit rich to be accused of dithering and delaying by a member of a Government who spent 18 years doing nothing about the Post Office. At least we have come to a conclusion and announced it. The previous Conservative Government tried to privatise the Post Office and failed, and then ran to ground and did nothing.
It is clear that the right hon. Gentleman wrote his response before listening to my statement. The Post Office will face tough competitive pressures created by us, and will have strong commercial freedoms. It is absolutely clear from the right hon. Gentleman's remarks that, if he were at this Dispatch Box and had his way, there would be full-scale privatisation straight away. Sub-post offices would face closure and rural postal services would face the axe. There would be a queue of takers for the rich pickings available for those able to buy the most lucrative parts of the Post Office.
That is what the right hon. Gentleman's policy would mean: no half measures or careful judgment, but full throttle and full steam ahead for privatisation--with or without the support of Tory Back Benchers. Coming so soon after its die-in-the-ditch stand for hereditary peers, the right hon. Gentleman's statement shows how out of touch, divided, lacking in leadership and unfit for government today's Conservative party is.
Every one of the right hon. Gentleman's questions has an answer in my original statement. Importantly, my statement sets out what our policy means for the Post Office--hon. Members will notice that that was not at the heart of the right hon. Gentleman's concerns or remarks. There will be a new arm's-length strategic relationship between the Post Office and Her Majesty's Government. Do the Opposition support that? We do not know. Do the Opposition support retained post-tax profits at an increased commercial level? We do not know. What about greater pricing freedoms? Does the right hon. Gentleman support that measure? Does he support greater freedom to invest using retained earnings?
Do the Opposition agree with the freedom to borrow for growth investments within the agreed strategic plan? They do not have the foggiest idea. What about the freedom to structure the business as the board sees fit? I would have thought that that was the sort of market-driven corporate capitalism that the Opposition would support. However, they do not know whether to support it, because they do not know whether they are coming or going.
Our measures are good for the Post Office, for its business and for its customers. That is why they will command the overwhelming support of the British people right across the country.
Mr. Alan Johnson (Hull, West and Hessle):
I welcome the statement on behalf of not only the Post Office and its users, but the public of this country who want that business to be retained within the culture that made it successful. I remind my right hon. Friend that, when the right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr. Redwood) had his first spell in opposition--which hon. Members will remember was when his party was in government--he was not a great supporter of the proposals of the right hon. Member for Henley (Mr. Heseltine) for the Post Office. I shall check the record, but I think that the right hon. Member for Wokingham, along with many of his colleagues, opposed privatisation.
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