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- Sitting suspended, pursuant to Standing Order No. 10 (Wednesday sittings), till half-past Two o'clock.
Oral Answers to Questions
WALES
The Secretary of State was asked--
National Assembly
1. Mr. James Gray (North Wiltshire): If he will make a statement on the (a) construction and (b) cost of the National Assembly. [61559]
The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Alun Michael): Anyone who has experience of a major public building project will know that we are at an early stage in the design process. I want to involve a wide range of interested groups in the process, including political party leaders in Wales, disabled people, young people and, as matters progress, Assembly Members. The capital cost was identified, during the legislative process, as £17 million, and that figure is not expected to increase. Running costs were identified as between £15 million and £20 million, and I have no reason to differ with those figures.
Mr. Gray: I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his answer, and I am glad that he has taken such care in making detailed plans for the location and cost of the Assembly. However, would it not have been better for a party that is overwhelmingly committed to devolution of decisions to wait until the Assembly was up and running--only months from now--and allow Assembly Members to take their own decisions about the Assembly's location, cost and design?
Mr. Michael: Obviously, the hon. Gentleman knows as much about major building projects as he does about devolution. The planning and the building--[Interruption.] If the hon. Gentleman were listening to the answer to his question, I might think that he had come into the Chamber with a real question, not simply to try to score points. Any major building project takes time to develop, and people need to be involved in that process in order to ensure that we have a building for the Assembly of which Wales will be proud, and which will demonstrate to the world outside the confidence with which the Assembly is being established. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will look on with interest as that happens.
Mr. Ron Davies (Caerphilly): This is my first opportunity in the House to congratulate my right hon. Friend on his appointment as Secretary of State. May I therefore take the opportunity to convey to him my good wishes and support over the coming months? They will be very exciting for Wales, and they will be very challenging and demanding for everyone at the Welsh Office. I send my best wishes to all who will be involved in the coming period.
On the subject of the Assembly, my right hon. Friend will know of my gratitude to his constituency predecessor, now Lord Callaghan, and a very distinguished panel of judges who have brought forward the Richard Rogers design concept. Can my right hon. Friend confirm that that is the concept that he is now developing for the
Assembly building, and will he tell the House whether he has any proposals for developing that design in a way that embraces the express wishes of the people of Wales?
Mr. Michael:
I thank my right hon. Friend for his remarks. May I return the compliment by congratulating him on his bearing throughout what has been an extremely difficult time for him personally? I am also grateful to him for giving me the opportunity to join him in thanking my predecessor, Lord Callaghan, who has brought enormous experience and wisdom to bear on the project of considering the potential designs.
I am happy to confirm that I feel that the process is moving forward very well indeed; it is on a sound basis. One or two people seem to have thought that there might be some doubt about the process going forward. I have never said anything that was intended to encourage that idea. The one thing that I did say initially was that I would look to be fully briefed before making any comment. Having been briefed, and having looked with the architects at the design concept, I believe that it is very exciting, but it is only a concept at this stage, and it needs to develop in a way that respects the nature of the Assembly that we are trying to create, and that is as inclusive as possible. I believe that it has the potential to be developed in that way.
Mr. Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley):
Can the Secretary of State for Wales confirm that the budget for advertising the elections to the Welsh Assembly is in the region of £2 million? If that is the case, can he confirm that the people of Wales will be astonished to learn that that is the figure, and that they will believe that the money could be far better spent on hospitals in Wales, on schools in Wales or on law and order in Wales?
Will the Secretary of State also take on board the fact that the advertising campaign should be conducted on an all-party basis? Will he be inviting representatives of the political parties in Wales to discuss the campaign for the elections to the Welsh Assembly?
Mr. Michael:
I am not sure that the hon. Gentleman's choice of words is accurate. We are talking about information being available so that people understand the elections in which they have an opportunity to take part as distinct from campaigns, which are for the individual political parties to run. The hon. Gentleman knows as well as I do that I wish to be inclusive in the way in which we debate these matters, which is why I have met the leaders of the political parties in Wales to discuss their concerns. Opposition parties have a place in the political process, as does the majority party, which Labour intends to continue to be.
I welcome the hon. Gentleman's interest in education, schools and law and order in Wales. It will be something of a surprise to the people of Wales. A specific budget has not been set aside at this stage. We shall enter into those matters in due course.
2. Mr. John Wilkinson (Ruislip-Northwood):
If he will meet the Commission of the European Union to discuss the Principality's eligibility for EU structural funds under the EU financial perspective for the years 2000 to 2006. [61560]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Peter Hain):
Over the past year, Ministers have been fully involved in discussions at the United Kingdom level and in Brussels, and will continue to be so in the new year.
Mr. Wilkinson:
Is it not the case that west Wales and the valleys have a gross domestic product per head of 72 per cent. of the national average? That is significantly below the threshold of 75 per cent., which is eligibility for objective 1 status for structural funds. How is it that it seems likely that that eligibility will not lead to any award of structural funds for this region, which is the second poorest after Cornwall? How is it that huge tracts of the country will not have objective 2 status? Is it not the case that the people of Wales would be much better off if they gave less of their money to Brussels, because they get so little back?
Mr. Hain:
I have always known that the hon. Gentleman is bonkers on Europe; however, this question has taken the biscuit. The hon. Gentleman has it wrong. The proportion of European average gross domestic product of west Wales and the valleys is 71 per cent., which will mean that the region will qualify for structural funds under objective 1 status. We shall be negotiating with the European Commission and with our European partners through the British Government, who strongly support Wales's bid, to ensure that we achieve the maximum possible benefit.
Mr. Alan W. Williams (East Carmarthen and Dinefwr):
Will my hon. Friend give some account of the work of the task force that was set up to gain objective 1 status and to make good use of the money? Does he agree that local authorities have a critical role to play in developing a raft of schemes that will qualify for objective 1 funding so that we shall be off to a flying start if the funds come through in 2000?
Mr. Hain:
Yes. I strongly agree with my hon. Friend that the work of the task force will be critical in mobilising maximum resources from public funds and from the private sector working with local authorities. He makes a good point. The task force should be working now to ensure that Wales is well able to take the maximum opportunity available to it when the funds come in from 1 January 2000. We can learn from Ireland, which has been extraordinarily successful in this respect. Wales can emulate Ireland and regenerate the whole of west Wales and the valleys, which have been so badly decimated by nearly 20 years of Tory rule.
Mr. Richard Livsey (Brecon and Radnorshire):
With reference to new structural funding, is the Minister able to reassure us that agricultural decline and sparsity of population in areas such as Powys will be considered fully in relation to their attaining objective 2 status in future, at the same time as other parts of Wales attain objective 1 status?
Mr. Hain:
The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point. The Government are seeking to persuade the European Commission to alter the eligibility criteria for objective 2 funding in particular, which focuses far too narrowly on unemployment rates. A variety of additional
Mr. Denzil Davies (Llanelli):
First, will my hon. Friend confirm--there have been many newspaper reports about this--that the valleys and west Wales have now been designated for objective 1 status? Has that been decided? Secondly, we read in the newspapers about the sum of £2 billion. Over the six years, will that sum be available to south Wales, the valleys and west Wales?
Mr. Hain:
My right hon. Friend raises some important points both for his constituency in Llanelli and for the whole of the designated NUTS 2 area, which has been accepted by Eurostat as qualifying for objective 1 status. As it meets the below 75 per cent. of GDP criterion, it will qualify, but we must negotiate with our European partners. The negotiations will take place in March to ensure that the status is confirmed and to agree the figure that my right hon. Friend mentions. We hope to get the maximum benefit, and it has been suggested that west Wales and the valleys could be entitled to some £1.5 billion to £2 billion.
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