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Mr. Dobson: I suppose that I should thank the hon. Gentleman for his somewhat limited welcome for our proposal. All I can say is that it has been almost unreservedly welcomed by the Cancer Research Campaign, the British Heart Foundation and Action on Smoking and Health. We have met virtually every one of their requirements.
As for the timing of the intended measures, the hon. Gentleman should wait to see the regulations that we will introduce. As for similar efforts overseas, we support whole-heartedly the initiative that Dr. Brundtland has launched at the World Health Organisation to put together an international effort to restrain the international efforts of tobacco companies.
Mr. Joe Ashton (Bassetlaw):
I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his excellent report, but there was one word that he did not mention: pubs. Is he aware that public houses are the only place where members of the public gather where there are no no-smoking areas?
Will my right hon. Friend ensure in the legislation that breweries do not get a licence to sell alcohol from a local authority without providing no-smoking areas in their public houses? Will he make a start on this House, because the conditions in the Stranger's Bar are absolutely dreadful? On December nights, the door must be held wide open because the staff can hardly breathe and the extractor fans do not work. Despite many others making requests, a no-smoking area in the Tea Room is still not available. In many parts of this House, people are entitled to have a segregated no-smoking area, but despite the complaints we make, it never happens.
Mr. Dobson:
I thank my hon. Friend for his welcome for our proposals. We have been having serious negotiations with the hospitality industry and those who are responsible for licensed premises. They are introducing a new code of conduct, which--
Mr. Ashton:
We have heard that 10 times before.
Mr. Dobson:
I know, but let me finish. We have made it clear that, if the code of conduct does not deliver what those companies are promising, we will have to resort to legislation. We would, however, rather have the enthusiastic support of people in the licensed trade, restaurants and hotels. Many of them are gradually realising, as did the airlines, bus companies and train companies, that most people would rather be in a smoke-free area.
It is rather odd that, as far as I know, smoking has always been banned in the Chamber, but it was not banned by us. No one other than hon. Members is responsible for the rules in other parts of the House. I would be happy to see it setting an example.
Mr. Peter Bottomley (Worthing, West):
People will welcome the Secretary of State's analysis that it is vital to get young people who take up smoking to understand that they are doing what children do, not what adults take up. Will he give more prominence to the work of Dr. Malcolm Green and his colleagues at the British Lung Foundation, because, as well as hearts, lungs matter? Sometimes that is overlooked.
While considering where bans on smoking could be made, can we look forward to powers for taxi drivers to ban smoking in their cabs, which they have not, up to now, been able to do?
Will the Secretary of State continue to be aware that the ban on promotion might make a difference of between 1 and 7 per cent? The target should be to achieve the same level of reduction as was achieved 10 years ago on drink driving. The number of occasions when young men would drink and drive was cut by two thirds in two years, with no change of law or in sentencing. It was done effectively through the youth media, so, instead of Ministers saying that things are cool or uncool, it is far more useful for disc jockeys and others to talk about the dangers of smoking on their news and current affairs programmes. That would be more effective than a public service or health message.
Mr. Dobson:
I accept the hon. Gentleman's point about trying to get a change of view, a change of culture,
It is sometimes suggested that young people understand the dangers that smoking poses to health, but there may be some evidence that many of them do not. As the dangers of smoking have been advertised in the adult world for the past 10 years, we tend to think that young people are aware of them, and that efforts have not been targeted on them. However, evidence from the United States, for example, shows that the best way of turning young people off smoking is by portraying accurately those who run the companies as a set of grasping people who, for the sake of profit, are willing to murder people.
Dr. Ian Gibson (Norwich, North):
It has indeed been an exciting week for cancer research, starting with work by British researchers on cervical tests that was funded by the Cancer Research Campaign and that will, over the next few years, save women's lives. My right hon. Friend fully supported that work. The week is nearing its end with today's announcement on cancer prevention. Does my right hon. Friend agree that it ill befits an Opposition to take seats on tobacco company boards and to take day trips to regattas and other United Kingdom events sponsored by the tobacco industry when that industry makes millions of pounds in profit and, as he said, kills our people? Does he agree that we should be as ruthless with tobacco companies' profits as those companies have been with their customers?
Mr. Dobson:
I have always been rather reluctant to get into upbraiding anyone for their personal habits, and I shall not start now. However, I object to the habits of the tobacco companies' highly paid executives, who spend their time promoting something that they know will kill half of those who use it.
Mr. Eric Forth (Bromley and Chislehurst):
Has the Secretary of State made any estimate of the tax revenue loss that would occur should he achieve anything like his stated target of 1.5 million fewer smokers by 2010? If so, will he tell us how he or his Treasury colleagues propose replacing that lost tax revenue, or what Government expenditure cuts would be necessitated by such a loss?
Mr. Dobson:
The present Government, including the present Chancellor, support the policies that I have outlined today. In each successive Budget we intend to increase the price of cigarettes above the rate of inflation. If that action eventually has an impact on tax income, we shall address that problem when it arises. The sooner the problem arises and the greater it is, the better off the country will be.
Dr. Phyllis Starkey (Milton Keynes, South-West):
I welcome the statement as a great step forward in trying to reduce the number of young people taking up smoking. However, will my right hon. Friend tell the House what he will do to monitor the diversionary activities in which the tobacco companies are involved? I am concerned
Mr. Dobson:
I am glad to say that all those matters are covered by the directive. The dishing out of promotional literature in night clubs--or youth clubs--will be banned, as will the issuing of free cigarettes, free sunglasses and all the other things that the tobacco companies have been using to promote the sale of cigarettes among young people. All those activities are covered by the directive which Conservative Members obstructed for the best part of 10 years, and which my right hon. Friend the Minister for Public Health negotiated through the maze of European structures.
Mr. Peter Brooke (Cities of London and Westminster):
I am a non-smoker, although I have to confess that I have taken pleasure in watching Benson and Hedges cricket--a game to which I am addicted. Historically, when does the Secretary of State believe that tobacco companies embarked on brand advertising? More importantly for the future, given that law enforcement officers believe that the drugs trade is now a significant and measurable element in world gross domestic product--although, obviously, without advertising--what does the White Paper forecast the fall in tobacco consumption will be over the next decade?
Mr. Dobson:
We have targets rather than forecasts. The Government are putting an extra £35 million into stepping up the effort to reduce alcohol and tobacco smuggling. It is clear that the market that has been created is being supplied on the cheap by all sorts of dubious traders. Interestingly, the tobacco companies, which claim to be disturbed by the problem, do not seem able to cut off the supply.
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