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Mr. Gapes: Does the hon. Gentleman accept that large numbers of Londoners--including my constituents who live by the A12 to Essex and the east, and others who live by major roads into the city--suffer the consequences of pollution and associated problems such as noise? It must be just that Londoners should receive some compensation from people who live in leafy areas outside the city and cause environmental pollution when they travel into London.
Mr. Lansley: The point of congestion or user charging is not to put money into the pockets of people who live next to the A12; the charges should be used to ensure that transport noise and pollution are reduced. That is what will benefit people who live by the A12; they should not personally benefit financially because they live in a polluted atmosphere.
Mr. Efford: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr. Lansley: No. I have taken up a lot of time, so I should come to a conclusion rather than take interventions.
In checking on the Government, people should consider not only hypothecation but additionality. I warn hon. Members that, if the Government are allowed to hypothecate user charges for transport purposes but simultaneously to reduce transport expenditure in the programme budget, the benefit will be negligible.
Mr. Wilkinson:
Will my hon. Friend give way?
Mr. Lansley:
My hon. Friend must forgive me; I said that I would not take any more interventions, so I should be consistent.
Mr. Keith Darvill (Upminster):
My credentials in this debate--apart from the fact that I represent Upminster on the edge of east London--are that I was born, brought up and educated in London and come from a family of Londoners. For the first 21 years of my working life, I was employed by the Port of London Authority and I saw the decline in the use of the River Thames and the enclosed docks. I experience, as most of us do, the terrible congestion that we have to put up with day in and day out on the roads, although most days I travel to the House on public transport.
My view on the political identity of London is somewhat different from those that have been expressed. Some of my constituents come from the original Essex towns and continue to see themselves as Essex people, but the vast majority of them moved out to the east from inner London and feel that they are Londoners. Harold Hill, for example, is an old Greater London council/London county council estate, and the people who live there see themselves as Londoners.
Mr. Lansley:
Try saying that in Hall Lane.
Mr. Darvill:
I have canvassed in Hall Lane and know it well. I feel reasonably well qualified to speak in this important debate because of my background and experience.
I wish to congratulate the Secretary of State and his Front-Bench colleagues on introducing the Bill so early in the second Session of this Parliament. In the 19 months since the general election, we have had the Green Paper, the White Paper, the referendum legislation, the referendum itself and now the Bill. That is good progress. The consultation period was important. When the Bill is enacted, its provisions will form an important part of the constitutional changes that will help us to modernise our country for the new millennium.
Clause 2(5) and schedule 1 indicate that the Secretary of State can have a radical review of the assembly's constituency boundaries, and the Bill makes it clear that
that is an option for the Secretary of State. I am one of those hoping for a radical review sooner rather than later. I would have preferred multi-member constituencies on a sub-regional basis. That was emphasised in the Green Paper, but it did not receive enough debate London wide, as we focused on the constituency link--important though that is. London's sub-regional emphasis should be underlined, and I hope that, as the strategic authority develops, we will leave that open as an option for the future.
I made representations to the Local Government Commission when it was drawing up the constituency boundaries, and I know that other hon. Members made the same arguments. In my area, we share a health authority with Barking and Dagenham, and the transport structure of our area goes along the Thames parallel. It would have been far more suitable for the constituency boundaries to reflect those strategic views--albeit not on a totally sub-regional basis. However, that is another matter for the future. I recognise that the constituency boundaries were drawn as they were for convenience and speed.
I am a member of the all-party Thames gateway group, and we are working in partnership with the public sector. The Bill will allow partnerships to promote the sub-regions and to assist in the development of strategies, as well as economies. Bearing all that in mind, my borough of Havering would have been much better placed with Barking and Dagenham because of the links to which I have referred.
I welcome the package of electoral voting methods--by the supplementary vote system for the mayor, and by the first-past-the-post system and the additional member system on the d'Hondt formula for the assembly. I had difficulty reading schedule 2 of the Bill, and I had to read it several times before I was able to understand it. I was certainly relieved to see the explanatory notes.
The principle of closed lists has been discussed many times in this House and in another place during the consideration of the European Parliamentary Elections Bill. I sat through some of those debates, but did not contribute to them. Opposition Members often made accusations to the effect that few Labour Back Benchers supported the Government. They did, of course, support the Government in the Lobby.
There are advantages to closed lists. In democratic terms, it is for the political parties to decide on the pecking order of the lists. Political parties that do not allow their own internal democracies to flourish and do not encourage wider member participation will do themselves no good, and eventually will suffer. My party benefited from changing its internal rules for electing candidates. The Conservative party has suffered because it did not--although it has changed, belatedly. Those, however, are matters for the parties and not for Parliament.
The closed list will be simple. All candidates in the list will be named and the electorate will know whom they are voting for--contrary to press reports during the European Parliamentary Elections Bill debates. There was a popular misconception that people would not know who the candidates were. Most of the electorate vote for the party of their choice as well as for the candidate.
I am absolutely certain that, for example, in local elections, some of the electorate voting in multi-member wards do not fully understand the system and often
mistakenly vote for the wrong candidate. My experience in local election counts over the years is that, quite often, the candidate for a particular party whose surname starts with an "A" is likely to get more votes than those with names that start with letters further down the alphabet. A closed-list system would avoid that.
Mr. Simon Hughes:
I have never understood the justification for that argument. Is the hon. Gentleman honestly telling us that it is better for the electorate to have no say as to which of the Labour party candidates they would prefer to elect, and to have to accept the list that is presented to them?
Mr. Darvill:
One has to consider the provisions as a package. I would argue that, for the GLA, as a strategic authority, and for the European elections, it is acceptable to have a party list, bearing in mind the fact that people are not excluded from voting for candidates in local and parliamentary elections. When people vote in a closed-list system, they will know who the candidates in the party list are.
Mr. Hughes:
How can one express the judgment that one likes one of the party's candidates but not another? Voters may be disfranchised because they decide to vote for nobody rather than accepting as a package a list of people some of whom they would be happy to see elected but with one of whom they fundamentally disagree, regardless of party allegiance.
Mr. Darvill:
Some members of the electorate may take that view, but as the hon. Gentleman himself said earlier, there is no ideal system, and I believe that, on balance, we have to accept that weakness.
The electorate will have a package of democratic representatives. It is important to distinguish the strategic role that the GLA will play. As with the European elections, and bearing in mind the fact that people will have ward councillors and Members of Parliament who fit into the democratic process, I see no wrong in the system. With the benefit of proportional representation, more votes will count and a new dynamic will be released in our political life.
I am pleased that clause 25 provides for the authority to promote the health of Londoners as well as promoting economic and social development in Greater London. Clause 27 is an important safeguard, in that the mayor will not be able to do anything that will duplicate the statutory functions of Transport for London, the police and fire authorities or the London development agency. Subsection (9) will allow the mayor to use the powers under the clause to co-operate with other public bodies to co-ordinate and facilitate activities on a wider than local basis.
Clause 33 provides for the mayor's strategies. There will be no shortage of strategies on matters such as transport, economic development and regeneration, biodiversity, municipal waste management, air quality, ambient noise, culture, the health of London, and something close to my own heart: promoting the use of the Thames for passenger transport and freight.
The transport strategy in clause 123 and the transport functions of the authority covered in clauses 122 to 201 are of the utmost importance and priority, and a London
Evening Standard poll recently showed transport to be a priority of Londoners. Clauses 200 and 201 are probably the most radical, providing as they will a framework within the GLA for the introduction of road charging schemes and non-residential parking levies across all or part of London.
Several Conservative Members have suggested that those powers were not emphasised in the lead-up to the referendum. However, they will be an important feature in the lead-up to the elections in May next year. If mayoral candidates do not want to use those powers, they can stand on that platform and give Londoners an opportunity to decide on that basis. It is a false argument to say that the powers, which were mentioned in the White Paper, should have received greater emphasis during the referendum debate.
I welcome the ability that the boroughs will have to introduce parking schemes in their areas, subject to the agreement of the mayor. It is essential to ensure the hypothecation of the net revenues from those charges and levies for spending on a wide range of transport measures, in support of the mayor's integrated transport strategy. A clean, safe, efficient and reasonably priced public transport system for London is crucial, because otherwise congestion will worsen, the health of Londoners will suffer, the Londonwide economy will suffer and regeneration will be more difficult to achieve.
Transport is the key to a better London. Whatever strategy the mayor puts forward, it will be difficult to sustain and develop without an improvement in public transport. Londoners see transport as a priority for the mayor and GLA, when elected.
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