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Mr. Gibb: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way at last. Does she believe that the long list of economic objectives that she has set out will be achieved by taking £25 million from 300,000 poorer pensioners?
Mr. Nicholas Winterton: That is it in a nutshell.
Dawn Primarolo: In a nutshell, the investors in question have alternatives. Again, the hon. Member for Bognor Regis and Littlehampton (Mr. Gibb) seeks to perpetuate the suggestion that the money is to be taken away from those people and that there is no alternative. That is not true: alternatives are there. [Interruption.]
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Perhaps some hon. Members could calm down.
Dawn Primarolo: It is, Mr. Deputy Speaker, because Conservative Members are so pleased to see me at the
Dispatch Box and keen to participate in my first contribution as Paymaster General. That is it in a nutshell. I can always rely on Conservative Members to assist me when I speak from the Dispatch Box.
Mr. John Bercow (Buckingham): Will the hon. Lady give way?
Dawn Primarolo: No. I will not give way to the hon. Gentleman.
Dr. Lynne Jones: I agree with everything that my hon. Friend has said, and the Government are right to abolish ACT. However, could the Government not institute a system that allows non-taxpayers, who, by definition, must be on low incomes, to have their dividends paid tax free? Such a system already exists for bank and building society interest, where they fill in form R85. Why could not such a system be put in place?
Dawn Primarolo: Savings vehicles are available to those investors that would enable them to invest and to get a return on their money. Again, the Opposition seek to make it sound as if there is nothing else that those people could do.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Member for Buckingham (Mr. Bercow) keeps bobbing up and down and asking the Paymaster General to give way. It does not seem as if she wants to give way to him.
Dawn Primarolo: Within ISAs, those who invest in equities will continue to have payable tax credits for a further five years, despite the corporation tax changes. Already more than 300 providers have registered with the Inland Revenue to offer the ISAs. That will help to make them widely available and to create competition between providers. We have also introduced the CAT--cost access terms--standards, which will help to keep charges down, making ISAs potentially good value for money investments even for those on low incomes and small investors.
That is the point that Conservative Members cannot understand and will not acknowledge. Most important--[Interruption.] Conservative Members table a motion about poor investors, savers and those who are on low incomes and then will not listen to the Government's case, which demonstrates that what they say is wrong. If they are so concerned, during this part of my speech--after asking me to address the matter--they should at least let me make some progress.
Most important, for all savers, we are determined to end the cycle of boom and bust that dragged down the economy and the value of people's savings under the Conservative Government.
Our corporation tax reforms provide a framework for long-term growth. They remove a number of serious distortions from the system and enhance the competitiveness of the United Kingdom as a location for
international investment. They are good for the economy. That means that they are good for everyone, including pensioners.
Mrs. Jacqui Lait (Beckenham)
rose--
Dawn Primarolo:
I have been very generous in giving way, but I will give way to the hon. Lady and then make some progress.
Mrs. Lait:
The hon. Lady is trying hard to get across the Government's policy. She says that the Government are offering an alternative to poor pensioners who save through shares. How much would she expect a poor pensioner to have to pay in charges to sell the shares? How much capital gains tax would the poorer pensioner be liable for? How much would the charges be to buy a PEP, TESSA or ISA?
Dawn Primarolo:
The hon. Lady will know that it depends on which particular services are used, but as she will also acknowledge--presumably, she supports the Government's policy--by the use of the CAT standards and by increasing competition in the market, we are driving down those charges.
Dawn Primarolo:
I have taken eight interventions. I should like to make a little more progress.
Under the Government, pensioners are better off. They have been better off since the Government took office and are certainly better off since we announced our corporation tax reforms in July 1997. As Conservative Members obviously want to be reminded of the good things that the Government have done, let me go through a few of them.
Mr. Geraint Davies:
Will my hon. Friend give way?
Dawn Primarolo:
I will not, if my hon. Friend will forgive me.
In the comprehensive spending review, we announced a £2.5 billion package of support for pensioners. I say to each pensioner: the Government care for pensioners and for the poorest pensioners. The right hon. Member for Wells sought to ridicule the changes to increase income support for those in most need: an extra £236 for a single pensioner and £377 for a couple. Those increases are three times the increase due under the normal uprating.
It was the Conservative party that ended free eye tests and that now tries to masquerade as a supporter of poor pensioners; it did not worry about them when it abolished free eye tests. It was the Conservative party that put value added tax on fuel and tried to raise it to 17.5 per cent. Its concern for poor pensioners did not exist at that stage. Obviously, it has found it only in opposition.
We are introducing a programme to ensure that people can claim the benefits to which they are entitled. Millions of pensioners are not getting what they are entitled to. When in government, the Conservative party did nothing about that. Conservative Members now have the cheek to tell us that they care for poor pensioners.
This winter and last winter, we gave each pensioner household a £20 winter fuel payment, with a £50 payment to those in most need. Along with the cut in VAT and other measures that we have taken, pensioner households benefit by an average £108--it is £140 for the poorest. We are also investing £500 million over the next three years to continue with the provision of winter fuel payments. We reversed the previous Government's decision to charge for eye tests. Conservative Members would not support us or congratulate us on that, or say that it will help poor pensioners. They abolished free eye tests, but we restored them.
The NHS is particularly important for pensioners. In our first two years in office, we are investing an extra £2.25 billion in the NHS. We also plan to deal with our inheritance from the Tories.
Here are the facts: help on fuel; minimum income guarantees--
Mr. Soames:
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I wonder if you could help my constituents, who look to Parliament to protect their rights. How are they to get a truthful answer to the question of how having £800 taken from them will make them better off? How am I to get an answer to that question, Mr. Deputy Speaker?
Mr. Deputy Speaker:
I am quite sure that the hon. Gentleman knows how to help his constituents, and that he knows his way around the House. It is not a matter for the occupant of the Chair.
Dawn Primarolo:
The hon. Member for Mid-Sussex (Mr. Soames) can help his constituents by understanding the changes that the Government have made and by explaining them properly to his constituents, rather than by building on his constituents' concerns and fears about losing money. He should explain to them the alternatives.
The Government have provided more investment in the NHS, and free eye tests. Those measures will help to ensure that pensioners have higher spending power and a better standard of living. Conservative Members failedto implement those measures when they were in government.
The Government's programme does not stop at helping today's pensioners, because we care also about tomorrow's pensioners. Conservative Members did not worry about those pensioners when they presided over the pensions mis-selling scandal. This Government tackled that problem and are fighting for pension security. My hon. Friend the Economic Secretary to the Treasury continues to work closely with the pensions industry, making more progress on the matter than was ever made by the previous Government.
Mr. Steve Webb (Northavon):
Will the Paymaster General give way?
Dawn Primarolo:
I shall not give way to the hon. Gentleman. I have spoken for a considerable time and have given way nine times, and many hon. Members wish to speak. The hon. Gentleman should respect that.
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