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Mrs. Gorman: That point was made earlier in the debate. It is a fact that, where AIDS is quite common among females as well as males, it is because anal sex is practised as a form of contraception. It is practised widely in Africa and extremely widely in Romania, which explains the prevalence of AIDS there. I do not want to mention all the biological details, but those are the facts.
Mr. Bradshaw: Will my hon. Friend give way?
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I think it is better for the hon. Member for South Ribble (Mr. Borrow) to deal with one intervention before he deals with another.
Mr. Borrow: I do not know on what basis the hon. Member for Billericay (Mrs. Gorman) made her comments, but my understanding is that transmission in Africa is by vaginal rather than anal sex, and I know of no basis for what she has said.
May I make a general point? I am a member of the all-party parliamentary group on AIDS and, in the early summer, spent several weeks taking evidence on a number of parliamentary hearings to produce a report entitled "A Strategy for AIDS". I hope that it will form the basis of discussions that are currently taking place in Government.
The all-party group included parliamentarians who voted against the proposal to lower the age of consent last summer, but the unanimous finding of all who were present for the hearings was that the existing age of consent--the age of 18--constituted a barrier to the obtaining of proper health information and promotion by young gay men. That finding has been backed by my hon. Friends who have spoken earlier today, and by the hon. Member for Witney (Mr. Woodward); it has also been supported by the British Medical Association, and by many other medical organisations and children's charities.
With the age of consent at 18, it is very difficult for many who are involved in the provision of advice on sexual health to give that advice to 16 and 17-year-old males under the age of consent, whether they are teachers, youth workers or medical health workers. I do not argue that we should change the law because the all-party group on AIDS felt that the existing age of consent constituted a barrier to getting information across. I am saying to those--in the House or outside--who are using AIDS and all the issues surrounding it as a reason for opposing this measure that there is no foundation for their stance. I believe that the employment of such statistics feeds
prejudice--the sort of prejudice that I remember in the mid-1980s, and the sort of prejudice that I thought and hoped had eased in the last 10 years.
Mr. Bradshaw:
Can we deal once and for all with the question of transmission in sub-Saharan Africa? HIV and AIDS are spread in sub-Saharan Africa predominantly through vaginal sexual intercourse. They are spread more easily there than in the west because of poverty and the prevalence of other sexually transmitted diseases, which make the transmission of HIV much easier.
Mr. Borrow:
I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. As for the issue of AIDS generally, I listened carefully to the comments of the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Sir N. Fowler), who is not present now. He was at the heart of Government when the AIDS epidemic started, and was responsible for many of the measures that were adopted then. I hope that, when the debate ends, he will give some thought to the evidence that is available about the way in which AIDS prevention is made more difficult by his support for the existing age of consent. I hope that he will think about that before he decides how to vote.
I hope that, as the right hon. Gentleman has used experience in terms of the AIDS epidemic to support his position, in the light of information of which he was obviously not aware at the beginning of the debate, he will reconsider his position and, instead of supporting the view that 18 is the right age, accept that all the information and evidence on AIDS goes the other way and supports a lowering of the age of consent.
Mr. Gerald Howarth:
I do not wish to prolong the hon. Gentleman's speech unduly, but what he has said contradicts the facts. The same argument was deployed in 1994 when the decision was taken to reduce the age of consent from 21 to 18. It was then said that doing so would enable young people to have advice on safer sex and all the rest of it, and reduce the level of HIV infection. The reality was different. Between 1995 and 1996, HIV infections among homosexual men increased by 11 per cent. His argument is completely flawed.
Mr. Borrow:
Having peaked, the number of new HIV infections among gay men is now declining. The number of gay men in the United Kingdom who have the virus or the disease is increasing because treatment has become much more effective, and more and more gay men who have been infected by the virus are living. That has led to an overall increase in the number within the population.
One or two Opposition Members touched on the Christian belief that homosexuality is wrong. My understanding is that, in both the Catholic Church and Church of England, there is an acceptance that human sexuality is not a matter of choice, but something that people come to learn about themselves.
It is on that basis that within the Anglican communion--it happens in significant numbers--clergymen who are homosexual by inclination are accepted into the priesthood if they remain celibate. There is an acceptance that gay men have no choice in their sexuality, but the Church, because its teaching is that sex should take place only within marriage and that marriage can take place only between a man and a woman, says that sinless sex can take place only within marriage.
I accept and understand that argument, but, if the major Churches argue that sex should take place only between a man and a woman within marriage, I am somewhat perplexed that the Churches do not argue that we should bring the criminal law into adultery and into sexual relationships outside marriage. I respect the Churches for holding that position, but I question seriously why, in their submissions to many people--I accept that the Churches are divided on the issue--they argue so strongly that legislation should discriminate and be prejudicial towards gay men. The Churches do not make similar strong arguments against sex between heterosexual couples outside marriage.
I was brought up as an Anglican. In the past 20 or 30 years, my religious observance has varied according to the extent to which I felt welcome within the church to which I went. At the moment, I feel less than welcome within the Church of England. That saddens me.
The main reason why hon. Members argue--[Interruption.] We have until 10 o'clock. The main reason why Members argue against a change in the law is because of prejudice.
Mr. Bermingham:
Has my hon. Friend not read the European Court's decision in the Sutherland and Morris case? In reality, there is no argument about the age of consent or homosexuality, legal or not. The argument on the Bill must surely be whether the protection for that group of vulnerable persons between 16 and 18 is adequate.
Mr. Borrow:
I recognise the point that my hon. Friend makes, but the bulk of the correspondence and representations that I have received, and much of the emphasis in the debate, has been on the age of consent, rather than the protection that is afforded to 16 and 17-year-old males and females. There is scope for further discussion on that part of the Bill, but I recognise its importance and the fact that it goes a long way towards dealing with supporters of the existing legislation--rather than the revised legislation--who want to keep the age of consent at 18 on the basis that that protects people.
The measures that have been introduced by my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary strengthen the age of consent legislation, but it is important not to view the Bill simply in terms of sexuality. We should recognise that, through these measures, we are protecting both young men and young women from unwarranted sexual attention by whoever.
I touch on what I think is at the heart of much of the opposition. It centres on the argument that equality of the age of consent will undermine family life. Families are made up in various ways, but every homosexual man or woman is part of a family. Every homosexual man or woman comes from a family, and depends on the love and support within that family. The argument that giving rights to homosexuals undermines the family is totally fallacious.
Over the past 30 years, there has been a big increase in the number of family breakdowns. I find it difficult to believe that that increase is because more gay men and women are choosing to live openly as gay and to settle down with their partners, rather than, as they would have done 30 years ago, getting married to hide their sexuality, or having a public face as single people, but keeping a part of themselves hidden away, somehow shameful and dark.
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