| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
8.58 pm
Ms Beverley Hughes (Stretford and Urmston): I shall keep my remarks brief, but I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to the debate. I am very pleased to follow the hon. Member for Faversham and Mid-Kent (Mr. Rowe); I shall not mention many of his comments because I wholeheartedly agree with them. I shall start by countering some of the arguments that have been made against the Bill.
It has been argued that because, under current legislation, there have been no convictions of 16 to 18-year-olds, there is no need to repeal the legislation. That is a spurious argument, because the incidence of convictions is irrelevant to the principles of the Bill and what it is designed to achieve. The aims of the Bill are, first, to ensure that we treat young people equally before the law; and, secondly, to ensure that, wherever possible, and as far as possible, we do not criminalise young people for behaviour that is not inherently criminal.
Secondly, we have heard the argument that homosexuality is abnormal, disease-ridden and dangerous, and not equal to heterosexual behaviour and relationships. That is an ill-informed point of view, to put it mildly. It assumes that homosexual behaviour, unlike heterosexual
behaviour, is entirely or almost exclusively focused on physical sexual activity. Of course that is not true. It is not true of heterosexual behaviour and it is not true, in my experience, of homosexual behaviour between people who love each other.
The argument is spurious also in so far as it presents homosexuality as posing undue risk of disease or damage. In one sense, all sexual activity involves some risk. Without recent advances in medical science, women could have been forgiven not long ago for refusing to engage in sexual behaviour because of the risks that that posed to them--the risks of illness, the effects of contraception, and childbirth.
Mr. Christopher Gill (Ludlow):
Is it the hon. Lady's understanding that women are protected by the law from the act of buggery? Does she believe that that is correct, or does she believe that the law is imperfect in that respect and should be changed? Will she explain her answer to those questions?
Ms Hughes:
I am making a much simpler point. The hon. Gentleman has misunderstood me. I am simply saying that any physical sexual activity involves a degree of risk. The arguments that we have heard tonight, which parade homosexuality as some highly abnormal, disease-ridden activity which presents great risks, are spurious and inaccurate.
I have always felt that people who speak in such authoritarian, intolerant and inflammatory terms about an activity in which they do not engage and which they do not share are giving us much more information about themselves and their attitudes than about the subject of their remarks.
Thirdly, and more important, we have heard that lowering the age of consent for young men in homosexual relationships would be tantamount to encouraging young men to enter homosexual relationships. That is a false premise. Equalising the age of consent is not tantamount to promoting homosexuality. I share the view of the hon. Member for Blaby (Mr. Robathan), who has left the Chamber. He suggested that we should discourage all young people from engaging in sexual activity too early. I agree with that.
Adolescence is a time when young people have a great deal to cope with. The complications and the emotional resources that a sexual relationship demands can add another layer of difficulty. That is the same for young women and for young men. It is not an argument against lowering the age of consent for homosexuality.
Indeed, as we heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Salford (Ms Blears), most young men who subsequently define themselves as homosexual have so defined themselves well before the age of 16. The argument that lowering the age of consent would push young men early into homosexuality against their nature does not hold up.
My main point relates to the arguments about child protection. That is a subject with which I was greatly concerned in my professional life, before entering the House. I must tell hon. Members that lowering the age of consent has no impact, one way or the other, on whether or not we protect children adequately.
A few years ago, I undertook major research for the Department of Health, investigating the incidence, and the nature, of organised and ritual sexual abuse. Some of that
research was traumatic. It involved reading the transcripts of children's evidence in some 20,000 cases in which an allegation of sexual abuse of an organised or ritual nature had been made.
I can tell hon. Members that the vast majority of those cases involved children well below the age of 16. There were various ways in which children were drawn into sexual abuse--for example, through paedophiles. Paedophiles are people in our community--youth workers, teachers, piano teachers and scout masters. Although I do not wish to taint everyone in those professions, a number of paedophiles use those activities to access and groom young children. They do not access and groom 16 to 18-year-olds.
Another area in which children are abused is prostitution. The vast majority of young girls and boys who go into prostitution do so mainly because they were sexually abused as younger children by men, and very occasionally, by women.
The idea that lowering the age of consent for young boys will have an impact on the inadequate way in which we protect all children is not a valid argument against doing so. To protect children more adequately, we must address the flaws in the criminal justice system--we are doing so. We must also act strongly against prostitution and give sentences that measure up to the seriousness of those crimes.
Mr. Roger Gale (North Thanet):
One of my hon. Friends referred earlier to the ratchet effect. Does the hon. Lady understand that, if the age of consent is lowered to 16, there will be downward ratchet effect? No prosecutions are effectively brought against abusers or those who get 13-year-old girls pregnant now, so none will be brought against the abusers of 13 or 14-year-olds. Does the hon. Lady realise that that will damage the safety of those to whom she rightly refers as "children"?
Ms Hughes:
No, I do not accept that argument. The hon. Gentleman is right to say that there are very few convictions in relation to the sexual abuse of children. Research shows that the reason is largely because the children are very young and are not regarded as credible witnesses in court. It is not because 13-year-olds consent to sex. Thus, we need to deal with our criminal justice system and evidential rules if we are to protect children better, and lowering the age of consent will have no impact on that.
The Bill as a whole addresses some important issues. One is that of equality before the law for young people. Many families of young people who are engaged in homosexual relationships, and the organisations that represent them, write to me about the difficulty and pain caused to young men who want to relate to another young man--in an emotional, not necessarily a physical, way. The current position makes their lives extremely difficult. So far in this debate, the arguments against lowering the age of consent have not been valid. However, there is a valid reason for taking this course of action.
The second issue is that of abuse of trust. It will become a criminal offence for someone in a position of trust to abuse that position. For the reasons that I have outlined, and because of my experience in this area, I very much support that provision. Children are, or have been, badly abused in residential care and institutional settings, and
the provision is therefore long overdue. It is about protecting children, but lowering the age of consent will have no impact on it one way or the other.
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Michael J. Martin):
Order. I am keen to let at least another four Back Benchers speak before 9.30, when the winding-up speeches will be made. That can be done if they take five minutes each.
Mr. Richard Allan (Sheffield, Hallam):
A key feature of this debate, and something that has driven us into lengthy discourse, is the fact that we have ranged very wide of the subject in hand--the age at which British citizens can freely engage in consensual sexual acts under our criminal law, and the age at which they are free from criminal penalty for acts in which they choose to engage.
This debate is not about sending messages, or encouraging or discouraging forms of activity; it is about how we see our criminal codes fitting into our national life. I fundamentally disagree with comments made early in the debate by the hon. Member for New Forest, (Dr Lewis), and by other hon. Members since, that our criminal law should be about telling people what they should do according to the will of the majority.
Our criminal code, many centuries ago, indeed included laws against adultery and about all sorts of behaviour, including, in various periods, whether people should dance, sing or go to plays. Our law has evolved in a positive direction since then, towards a modern and liberal code. The foundation of that is the belief that the criminal law fundamentally and primarily exists to prevent citizens from committing harm to each other and, once such harm has been committed, to punish the perpetrators. It does not exist to tell us what to do.
I am wary of politicians telling us anything about how we should carry out our sex lives. I am pleased that the criminal code has evolved in a much more liberal direction, often because it had been shown to be hypocritical and because politicians had set rules that they, due to their own human nature, could not live up to. As power structures have become more democratic, people have rightly demanded a more democratic criminal code.
We must be wary of any criminal provisions that deprive citizens of their liberty. That is a fundamental issue; we must have a proportionate response to any actions that are carried out. The age of consent is primarily about deciding at which age young people acquire certain rights--it is their right to do with their bodies as they wish--and the responsibilities that go with those rights. I would not in any way claim that there are no responsibilities.
As other hon. Members have said, we should discourage anyone from having sexual relations at such an early age, but that discouragement would not be assisted by threatening people with a gaol sentence. They would have acquired responsibility for their bodies, and it would not be helpful if the nanny state tried to usurp that responsibility. It would be much clearer to say at 16, "You
are responsible for your sexual activity. We can offer advice and assistance, but we will not throw you in prison for choosing to do things in your own way."
To a degree, the age of consent will always be set arbitrarily, but, on that basis, 16 is a sensible age at which we can assume that a young person has acquired sufficient responsibility. An age of permission is not the same as an age of compulsion. We do not require people to smoke when they reach 16, or to get married, and making something permissible in no sense makes it compulsory. We must always bear that in mind in the debate.
I generally welcome the abuse of trust provisions. The hon. Member for Bassetlaw (Mr. Ashton) was right to raise the issue previously and, as I said in response to his earlier comments, I was disappointed that it became an argument between us. We agree on a common end, but not on the method of achieving it.
A general position of authority provision would lead to considerable problems and would not be a workable law. For example, if a sexual relationship began between assistants aged 21 and 17 who were working for me, and the 21-year-old was the line manager of the 17-year-old, a general authority provision would catch them. That would be unworkable. I understand that the hon. Member for Bassetlaw, whose knowledge of parliamentary procedure is deeper than mine, was trying to tease the Government towards giving a more detailed response, and I welcome that response.
We agree about abuse of a position of trust and/or authority. The other issue that was referred to was how we deal with pimping. We could introduce specific criminal provisions--outside the scope of the Bill and dissociated with the age of consent--and I have corresponded with the Minister of State, Home Office, who has responsibility for those matters, and with his predecessor. No one can consent to be pimped, and we should deal with pimping in a serious way.
I generally welcome the Bill and hope that it receives a fair wind.
9.9 pm
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |