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6.45 pm
Mr. Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale, West): I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for Sunderland, North (Mr. Etherington) in this important debate. It is evident that he speaks from the heart, which is good to hear in the House of Commons, and I congratulate him on his speech.
There are deeply felt differences of opinion on the Bill. Its subject matter has been debated in the House of Commons and British politics for many years and it will, no doubt, continue to be a source of contention. However, the hon. Gentleman is right to identify today as being a good day for old Labour and for the trade union movement, for, contrary to the Secretary of State's remarks in his opening speech, the Bill is but the first of a series of steps.
The most damaging feature of the Bill is that it gives no details of the Government's intentions--it is an enabling Bill that sets out broad powers in a wide range of matters, with the detail left to be supplied in regulations. There is so little detail in the Bill that, for all the Secretary of State's saying that the Government are taking but a single step and that the Bill lays down the industrial relations framework for the rest of the Parliament, he is in fact establishing a legislative framework that will give Ministers considerably greater powers to increase the power of the trade unions, decrease the power and freedom of business, and increase the costs that apply to business.
Mr. Hope:
The hon. Gentleman describes the Bill as damaging, but will he explain to temporary workers in my constituency of Corby why he regards the awarding of holiday pay to temporary workers as damaging? Will he confirm that the Opposition would withdraw holiday pay from such workers?
Mr. Brady:
I am delighted that the hon. Gentleman raises that point, because in so doing he makes my case for me--that issue is not covered in the Bill. Now that the Bill has been published, temporary workers have no more idea whether they will have such security than they had a week, six months or two years ago. That is entirely illustrative of the approach taken in the Bill: it is not made clear at any point in the Bill who is covered, or what detailed provisions will be made for those who are covered. I am pleased to see the hon. Gentleman reading the Bill, perhaps for the first time. He might find it instructive.
Mr. Hope:
Perhaps the hon. Gentleman should read the explanatory notes that accompany the Bill, for they make it absolutely clear which rights every worker will be entitled to. I repeat my question: do the Opposition support temporary workers having the rights that other workers already enjoy?
Mr. Brady:
Again, that makes my point. The hon. Gentleman would be wise to look more closely at the Bill and to consider why the Government are intent on avoiding putting detail in the Bill. I contend that the reason is that there is a balancing act to be gone through before the whole Bill represents a final settlement. The question is one of striking a balance, not between trade unions and business, or between the rights of employees and employers, but between the different parts of the Labour party. That balancing act has not yet been resolved. It is clear that the Secretary of State and the Prime Minister have not yet decided where they want to end up.
The hon. Member for Eastleigh (Mr. Chidgey) referred to a speech made by the Prime Minister in Bristol a couple of weeks ago. The spin coming off that speech was astonishing, with the suggestion that European directives would be repealed because they were no longer in tune
with the current vogue for greater competitiveness and less regulation. The Prime Minister is happy to talk about such matters, whether in this country or in Europe, yet what little detail we can glean from the Bill suggests an entirely opposite approach. The Prime Minister--and the Secretary of State--is saying one thing to a public audience, one thing to a business audience, and another thing to a trade union audience and to the Labour party, but he is not prepared to nail his colours to the mast and say what rights he would be prepared to accept in the Bill.
Mr. Ian Bruce:
My hon. Friend is making a good point, as did the hon. Member for Corby (Mr. Hope). The Bill gives the same rights to temporary employees as it does to full-time employees, but agencies can find the same way round them as they do in France. In France, an employee cannot be temporary for more than three months. That is exactly what is likely to happen as a result of the Bill. Temporary employees will be sacked after three months, and they will not be entitled to holiday pay because of it.
Mr. Brady:
I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention.
The Secretary of State suggested that he is seeking to end the divisive culture of conflict, fear and mistrust in the workplace, yet that seems to ignore the fact that, over the past 20 years, there has been less industrial action and fewer days lost through strike action. There has been a much better record in industrial relations than ever before. Now, the Labour party, with enthusiastic backing from its Back Benchers at least, is seeking to turn the clock back and roll back the important reforms that have made the United Kingdom one of the most competitive countries in the world.
Lorna Fitzsimons:
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr. Brady:
No, I need to make some progress.
The crucial test of the Bill--and of the Government's supposed new framework of industrial relations--will be whether it increases or decreases the likelihood of industrial action. Will it increase or decrease the likelihood of a return to industrial strife? I suggest that it is very likely to increase industrial disharmony and strike action, and that it will be a retrograde step for that reason. There will be more opportunity for dispute and more conflict over recognition.
There will be trade union representation even in the very small businesses to which reference has been made because an employee will have the right to have a trade union representative with him in any grievance procedure. That point needs further attention because, although the Government have sought to spin the issue, suggesting that they have done everything that they can to please business and have excluded small businesses from the provisions, there is in fact a way in.
At what point does a personal grievance become a collective grievance? Will it be possible for an employee to seek trade union support to complain about a grievance over pay? Will it be possible to take that action over the quality of food in the staff canteen or staff parking? That is not clear. The Bill clearly allows a way in which to circumvent in very small companies the exemption that it appears to provide for the benefit of small businesses.
There is procedure for a ballot on trade union recognition, but no counter-balancing limit on the right of strike action in support of recognition.
Lorna Fitzsimons:
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr. Brady:
No, I said that I wanted to make progress.
Such a lack of a limit makes one wonder whether the Bill is a genuine attempt to find a fair settlement. Given the supposedly fair balloting procedure to allow trade union recognition, why should it still be necessary to take industrial action either to speed up that process or in response to results that are not as some people might wish? The Bill, and the regulations that flow from it, will affect small businesses even though, on the face of it, they are exempt from some of the provisions.
Reference has been made to the upper limit of unfair dismissal payments. A £50,000 payment may not be imposed often, but it does not need to be in order to put a small business out of operation. Labour Members have suggested that the higher limit will make businesses more careful and that unfair dismissal cases will not occur so often as a result. Making very small businesses over-concentrate on and be over-aware of legal procedure and regulation in every aspect of their daily activities could constitute a major cost. Some very small companies do not have recourse to proper advice on personnel matters.
Mr. Ian Stewart:
Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that it is a function of the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service to give advice, and that many codes of practice are already in place of which small and larger businesses can make use?
Mr. Brady:
I hope that the hon. Gentleman will understand that, in the cut and thrust of the daily lives of small businesses, the point is not whether the best advice is available should they seek it, but whether they have time to seek it or are aware of where it can be sought. By increasing pressure and potential costs on business, that could cause serious problems.
The parental leave elements of the Bill will of course add costs. Again, there is no detail--not even on whether the provisions will be paid or unpaid. Ministers have suggested their preferences, but they are not in the Bill. Reference has also been made to the clause on domestic incidents. That is a classic case of gold-plating the European directive, adding unnecessarily to costs.
Lorna Fitzsimons:
Will the hon. Gentleman give way on that point?
Mr. Brady:
On that point, I will give way to the hon. Lady.
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