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Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North): Leaving aside the characteristic attitude of the shadow Foreign Secretary, is it not deplorable that a Spanish Government
are reverting to the provocative attitude of the Franco regime? When Spain became a democracy, one hoped that its attitude would be very different. If Spain takes the view, which I understand, that it wants closer relations with Gibraltar, surely it must work in such a way as to persuade the majority of people in Gibraltar that that should be the case. At the moment, all the evidence reveals that 98 per cent. of them want to stay as they are. I hope that the position of the House is to defend the right of the people of Gibraltar to do precisely what they want--the right to self-determination.
Ms Quin: My hon. Friend makes valid points and I agree with his approach. Certainly in the post-colonial world, the wishes and consent of the governed are absolutely paramount in any constitutional arrangements. That is clearly spelt out in the Gibraltar constitution, and the Government hold very firmly to that commitment. It is obviously right to say that any change in Gibraltar's status could be granted only if it had the wholehearted consent of Gibraltarians. That is why persuasion and a policy of friendship and openness are by far the most successful approach, particularly as we are all partners in the European Union and other European organisations.
Sir Teddy Taylor (Rochford and Southend, East): The House and the people of Gibraltar were told in 1972 that the agonies that they suffered in 1967 could not be repeated because of what were called the tight rules and strict procedures of the European Union. Now that Spain is breaking the law on frontier control, and threatening to break the law on passports and driving licences, will the Minister say exactly what their friends in Brussels can do? Is it not a little silly to talk about directives when Spain is ignoring dozens of directives and having legal proceedings taken against it in 25 cases? Will the Minister tell the people of Gibraltar what Europe can do?
Finally, will the Minister at least give the assurance--I am sure that she will--that the Government will not let down or sell out the people of Gibraltar, and that in no way will they allow Gibraltar to be put under the rule of Spain against the people's wishes?
Ms Quin:
In response to the hon. Gentleman's last point, I hope he will agree that I, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary and the Government generally have given that assurance on many occasions. Indeed, the Prime Minister gave that assurance only last week in response to a question from the hon. Gentleman at Prime Minister's Question Time.
There are all kinds of ways in which EU directives have been broken. We can have legal recourse to redress. However, we believe that by far the best route in the immediate future is to do what we are doing--to protest to the European Commission and ask it to remind Spain and other countries of their responsibilities under directives by which they have agreed to be bound.
Dr. Norman A. Godman (Greenock and Inverclyde):
My right hon. Friend is right to emphasise that the Foreign Office will stick to the principle of consent. That principle underlines the Good Friday agreement. Madrid should be told that no change can take place outside the principle of consent.
The fishermen are not fishing out of purse-seiners such as those that operate out of Fraserburgh and Peterhead. They are small-boat fishermen, and it is right that that
fisheries dispute is settled locally. Madrid should be told that the best form of fisheries management is regional management.
Ms Quin:
My hon. Friend makes an important point--not surprisingly, with his knowledge of the fishing industry and the arrangements that work in practice. We believe that such a local agreement would reinforce the understanding that Britain and Spain had reached. We also believe that, understandably, the local agreement addresses effectively the concerns of local residents in Gibraltar. We are speaking of a fairly small area where fishing activity--especially if it takes place at night, as much of it does--can cause noise and aggravation to local residents, as well as not being in conformity with the understanding that had been reached.
I am glad that the local authorities and the police in Gibraltar took the action that they did, but I am also glad that the Chief Minister was able to back up that action with the agreement that was subsequently reached.
Mr. Michael Colvin (Romsey):
Some of us have a certain sympathy for the Minister of State, because we know that she is not getting the support that she should be getting from the Foreign Secretary.
With regard to the blockade of Gibraltar, which is a clear breach of EU law, does the right hon. Lady agree that that is a test of the European Commission's ability to enforce its own laws? With regard to the fishing and the welcome local agreement, what hope is there of the House of Assembly passing ordinances to enshrine that agreement in law? If that were done, would the Government agree to the dispatch of a fisheries protection vessel to the Admiralty waters around Gibraltar to ensure that that law is enforced?
Ms Quin:
On the last point, if the agreement works as we hope it will, and if it is subsequently backed up by legislation in the Gibraltar Assembly in the way that we hope, a fisheries protection vessel would not be needed.
I am disappointed and somewhat surprised by the hon. Gentleman's initial comments. He, along with colleagues from all parties, has met me through the all-party Gibraltar group in the House. I have also met him as an officer of that group. On each occasion, I have stressed to him the way in which my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary and I have been working together on this issue. The hon. Gentleman knows that a great deal of effort has been put in by both of us, as well as by the Governor, to address the situation. Those comments do the hon. Gentleman no service.
Mr. Lindsay Hoyle (Chorley):
Is the Minister aware of the plight of three of my constituents who were trapped on the Spanish side of the customs, not being able to enter Spain nor being allowed to go back into Gibraltar, for 13 hours? As Spain was clearly in breach of European law, I hope that my right hon. Friend will seek compensation for my constituents and also for Gibraltar. Has not the time come for that fisheries protection vessel to go down to Gibraltar? Let us take off the kid gloves and ensure that we get the right deal for our people in the United Kingdom and Gibraltar.
Ms Quin:
There certainly have been cases where people have suffered as a result of delays at the border.
Mr. Andrew Tyrie (Chichester):
I was there when the border was closed on 29 January and I saw some appalling behaviour by the Spanish police. Many people in Gibraltar believe that the British are engaged in negotiations to try to create some kind of counterweight to the Franco-German alliance through an Anglo-Spanish alliance, and that if Gibraltar has to pay the price for achieving that alliance, so be it. [Interruption.] That is what people in Gibraltar think.
Is the Minister aware that many people think that the line that the Government have been taking since they came to power is very naive and smacks of appeasement? Recent events still do not seem to have got across to the Foreign Office. The Spanish understand only strength; they do not understand polite reminders, via the European Commission, to obey directives. They are bullfighting; the Foreign Office is playing cricket. Is not the right thing to do in the fishing dispute to send a naval vessel capable of enforcing our rights and our sovereignty in our territorial waters?
Ms Quin:
The hon. Gentleman's version is a caricature of events. He may have visited Gibraltar, but he is giving us a very selective account of events. His claims about the Foreign Office are completely incorrect. He was not in the Foreign Office when we were discussing these issues, so he cannot claim to have been there. Let me say clearly that there is nothing stealthy or underhand about our approach. If I have to say it again, I will do so: we remain fully committed to the pledge in the Gibraltar constitution.
Mr. Bill Rammell (Harlow):
Does the Minister agree that, in reality, there is consensus on the way that we should deal with this situation? Attempts by Conservative Members to play politics with the issue do them an enormous disservice. Had Labour Members conducted themselves in such a way in opposition, they would rightly have been accused of irresponsibility. On the substance of the issue, will she comment on--and, I hope, refute--the spurious allegations that Gibraltar has contributed towards the conflict by going against European Union directives?
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