House of Commons
Monday 15 February 1999
The House met at half-past Two o'clock
PRAYERS
[Madam Speaker in the Chair]
Oral Answers to Questions
HOME DEPARTMENT
The Secretary of State was asked--
Police (Administrative Work)
1. Helen Jones (Warrington, North): If he will make a statement on progress in reducing the amount of administrative work required of police officers. [69104]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Kate Hoey): Good progress is being made in reducing the burden and in streamlining the management of administrative tasks. Developments following the Masefield scrutiny have significantly reduced the number of forms that the police must prepare for prosecuting straightforward cases in magistrates courts. More recently, pilots of new measures recommended in the Narey review of delay in the criminal justice system have introduced further streamlining.
Helen Jones: I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Recently, when I went out on patrol with my local police, I saw at first hand the heavy demand on police officers and the response of members of the public when they were dealing with a police officer whom they knew. Can my hon. Friend assure me that the reduction in administrative burdens on the police will lead to more police being devoted to front-line duties, which is what both they and my constituents want?
Kate Hoey: My hon. Friend is right. All of us learn a great deal when we go out and spend time with our local police. The Cheshire police in her constituency are doing well in civilianising the police force; 39 police personnel have been civilianised. That has increased the amount of money that is available to put into front-line and mainstream policing. We are determined to ensure that the administrative burden on our police is reduced to that which is necessary.
Mr. Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale, West): To what extent will police time be occupied in fulfilling the requirements of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998, not just in the preparation of audits, which has largely already been completed, but in future?
Kate Hoey: Clearly, the hon. Gentleman will join us in hoping that, if the Act works as it is meant to work--
we are sure that it will--crime will be reduced, so the amount of time that police spend on working on the requirements will also be reduced. Under present arrangements, there is considerable duplication in administration between the police and the Crown Prosecution Service. Those are the sorts of things that the reviews have worked towards trying to minimise. That is what I hope that we will be able to do.
Mr. Ken Maginnis (Fermanagh and South Tyrone): Has the Home Department considered the amount of administrative time that is spent in following up malicious complaints against the police? Has it considered how it might bite back, so to speak, against those who maliciously try to disrupt policing? Has the Home Office considered the amount of time and money that is spent because of malicious complaints? What steps does it intend to take to counter that?
Kate Hoey: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. Clearly, malicious complaints, or abuse of the system, which does happen, is something that no one can support. It is a crime--a criminal offence--to waste police time. I hope that police forces throughout the United Kingdom are ensuring that, where it is possible to prosecute people who have done that, they do so.
Mr. David Kidney (Stafford): Will my hon. Friend join me in congratulating Staffordshire police on their recent launch of the new Starnet radio communication system, which was jointly procured and is jointly used by Staffordshire fire and rescue service? Does she agree that such collaborative works between emergency services give opportunities for administrative savings? Will she look favourably on bids from Staffordshire police for limited Home Office funds for similar innovative and successful collaborations?
Kate Hoey: Yes. Clearly, any collaborative work, and the work to which my hon. Friend has referred, is to be welcomed and commended. We look forward to more such innovative initiatives throughout the country.
Police Grants
2. Sir Sydney Chapman (Chipping Barnet): What representations have been made to him in response to the announcement on provisional police grants for 1999-2000. [69105]
The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Jack Straw): I received 40 written representations on the provisional police grant allocations that I announced to the House on 2 December. The Minister of State, Home Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Brent, South (Mr. Boateng), subsequently met representatives from seven police authorities. I met right hon. and hon. Members from Kent and, while on an official visit to Falmouth. talked to the chief constable of Devon and Cornwall police about the matter. Final allocations of police grant for 1999-2000 were set out in the police grant report for England and Wales, which was approved by the House on 4 February.
Sir Sydney Chapman: I am grateful to the Home Secretary for that reply. Has he made any estimate of how
much of the increase of 2.7 per cent. in police grant funding that is to take place next year will be swallowed up by the ever-increasing commitments to police pensions, which are unfunded? If he is relying on the 2 per cent. efficiency savings that he expects next year, how does that square with the Audit Commission's view that further efficiency savings can be only 0.5 per cent. at most?
Mr. Straw: The continuing burden on police funds of the costs of pensions, which are pay as you go, is worrying to, I think, all hon. Members on both sides of the House, but the actual burden is taken account of in setting the formula for individual authorities. That is one of the reasons why the amount that is allocated varies from one force to another. I am satisfied that police forces can meet their 2 per cent. efficiency targets on top of that. I do not accept the hon. Gentleman's assertion on the belief of the Audit Commission. The commission has made it quite clear--not least in its latest publication "Fire and Police Performance Indicators"--that there is very substantial scope for efficiency savings, and that there is no relationship at all between the amount spent per head in an area and the effectiveness of the police service.
Angela Smith (Basildon): Will the Home Secretary assure the House that additional resources given to police are used to fight crime, and that any efficiency savings police are able to make are ploughed back into police forces for use in implementing crime prevention strategies?
Mr. Straw: Under the Police and Magistrates' Courts Act 1994, allocation of resources within an overall total is a matter for chief constables. Therefore, although I very much hope that what my hon. Friend desires will happen, I cannot guarantee it. Plainly, everyone in Basildon, in Essex, and across the country will expect that the resources released by efficiency savings are used for front-line operational police officers.
Sir Norman Fowler (Sutton Coldfield): In regard to the previous answer, is the Home Secretary considering setting targets for recruitment of police officers from ethnic minorities?
Mr. Straw: Yes, I am; I made that quite clear to the Home Affairs Committee last Tuesday, when I gave evidence to it. I should also make it clear--as I have in the past--that we are talking about targets and not about quotas of the type that were set, quite unsatisfactorily, in America. We want targets with a single method of entry and of qualification, regardless of people's ethnic status. Despite the progress that has been made in some forces--in recent years, pre-eminently in the Metropolitan police--I do not believe that it is satisfactory that, whereas 8 per cent. of our population are from the ethnic minorities, only a little over 2 per cent. of our police are from the ethnic minorities.
Sir Norman Fowler: If the Home Secretary is pursuing that policy, how is he able to continue saying that he has no view on police recruitment generally? Is it not a fact that police strength increased by 15,000 under the previous, Conservative Government? If he is going to
pursue the policy that he has just stated, should he not now take responsibility for falling police strengths across the country?
Mr. Straw: I think that, in the trade, that is described as a non sequitur. There is no connection whatever between the fact that, under an Act passed by the previous Administration, the establishment of police forces is now a matter for chief constables and my setting of targets for ethnic minority recruitment--with the overwhelming backing of police authorities, most chief constables and the public. What we have to hear from the right hon. Gentleman is whether he supports the policies that I am implementing and that are designed to ensure that the police service more accurately reflects the ethnic background of the people of this country as a whole.
Mr. Barry Jones (Alyn and Deeside): May I thank my right hon. Friend for the letter that my hon. Friend the Minister of State, recently sent to me, and ask him whether he accepts that the North Wales police authority has delivered a very high standard of policing, which is both very successful and very professional? Does he agree that our communities, particularly on Deeside, very much value their local police station? Is he also aware that my constituents are glad that five of our police stations are not to close, and that there was particular rejoicing in the town of Buckley when its residents learned that their station was not to close?
Mr. Straw: I am very glad to learn that my Minister of State has produced satisfaction--which does not surprise me, given the qualities that he brings to his job.
3. Mr. Tim Boswell (Daventry): What plans he has for achieving greater equity in funding between police forces. [69106]
The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Jack Straw): Funding is allocated between police forces in England and Wales by means of a needs-based formula. The formula is designed to be a fair means of distributing resources. However, I have commissioned two pieces of independent research to determine whether the formula can be improved.
Mr. Boswell: Although that specific answer is very welcome, will not the Home Secretary concede--if I concede it to him--that there is a case for special action on, for example, the Met and centralised services, such as criminal intelligence? Will he concede also that there is concern, particularly in county forces, about the slow wind down of the establishment element, about the unsolved pensions problem and about their overall funding? Does he agree that the result is that the chief constable in Northamptonshire--which has a well-known, lean and efficient police force--will be required to dispose of the services of 43 officers next year?
Mr. Straw: The formula is not perfect, and we must go on trying to refine it. Although we will never reach perfection, hopefully the formula can more accurately reflect relative needs in different areas, over time. However, decisions about the number of officers to be deployed or on the establishment are a matter for chief officers. For Northamptonshire, the grant for 1999-2000
is increasing by 3.8 per cent.--that is 50 per cent. up on the average, and follows an increase of nearly 5 per cent. last year. Northamptonshire has done pretty well compared with other forces.
Ms Hazel Blears (Salford): The 2.9 per cent. increase this year for Greater Manchester will be challenging for us. However, I am delighted that the police authority has managed to find £10.5 million of efficiency savings, and that it has confirmed that it can live within the budget without cuts in front-line policing. Can I commend to my right hon. Friend the innovative new best-value pilot in Salford, which looks to get the maximum value for money out of every pound spent on policing? Will my right hon. Friend confirm that a fundamental look at police functions could ensure that the police concentrate on key issues--protecting the public and making our communities safer places in which to live?
Mr. Straw: I can confirm that. It is important that police resources are used wisely and not wasted. It remains the case that, as the Audit Commission has spelt out:
- "Overall, the police service is spending more per head in real terms each year, but there is still no direct correlation between increased spending and improved performance at the level of individual forces."
Dr. Vincent Cable (Twickenham): Does the Home Secretary accept that there are difficulties with the Metropolitan police, which has accounted for three quarters of the loss of police numbers since the Government came into office and has exceptional recruitment difficulties? Does he agree that the process by which the funding formula is arrived at--which gives equal weight to the various police authorities--heavily discriminates against a major metropolitan authority such as London?
Mr. Straw: I am afraid that I do not accept that. There has been an adjustment--certainly since I became Home Secretary--to take account of the special pressures and demands on the Metropolitan police force. I have increased the amount from £130 million in 1997 to £150 million last year, and to more than £170 million next year. The criticism that I have received has been from provincial forces who say that I have been too generous to the Metropolitan police--not too mean.
Ms Jackie Lawrence (Preseli Pembrokeshire): Will the Home Secretary confirm that one of the two pieces of independent research being carried out relates to the sparsity element of the needs-based formula? If, as the Dyfed Powys police force believes, the research shows that there are considerable extra costs in policing rural areas, will the sparsity element of the formula be adjusted to take that into account in future?
Mr. Straw: Yes, I can confirm that. I understand that this is of particular importance to constituencies such as
that of my hon. Friend in west Wales, which I had the privilege of visiting in 1997. We are carrying out two pieces of research--one on the effects of sparse population on pressures on policing, and the other on the pressures on police in inner urban areas. I hope--although I cannot guarantee--that there will be some resolution to those different but conflicting pressures.
Mr. John Greenway (Ryedale): When does the Home Secretary expect to publish the findings of that external research, particularly the research into sparsity? Does he agree that many of our small and rural police forces are under severe financial pressure? He mentioned eight the other day, and all those that he criticised were rural. We hope that he has checked up on how bad things are. Those forces have virtually no flexibility to deal with sudden shocks in the grant formula. Many are already cutting recruitment, leaving people in rural areas feeling betrayed by the Government. Will the Home Secretary assure us that there will be no further cuts in the budget for rural communities? Will he also assure us that provision to cover any additional and exceptional need will be quickly implemented?
Mr. Straw: I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his birthday. He is 53 today.
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