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Mr. Duncan Smith: Particularly pensions for the self-employed.
Mr. Brazier: As my hon. Friend says, my hon. Friend the Member for Ryedale is particularly knowledgeable about the self-employed.
I remember a jibe made by Labour Back Benchers in a number of social security debates. I was proud of many actions taken by the previous Government, but I was not proud of their actions on social security. I listened to the jibe of Labour Members, who asked, "How can the Conservative Government argue that the better-off need incentives to work harder but the poor do not?" I thought that there was a lot of truth in that jibe and, when it was made by those such as the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field), I felt embarrassed. Now, unbelievably, a Labour Government have extended means-testing for working people with 89 per cent. tapers in the working families tax credit going right up the income scale and the measure before us provides pensioners with a huge disincentive to save. Of course, colleagues have also mentioned the impact that it will have on incentives for the disabled, widowers and several other groups.
In opposition, Labour again and again made points about the weaknesses in what we were doing. We often heard the then Leader of the Opposition--now the Prime Minister--say, "Let us move from a handout to a hand up." I was one of those who were writing pamphlets in the background, saying that we needed to try to eliminate the disincentives in the system that the extension of means-testing had brought. I also heard the detailed ideas advanced by people, including the right hon. Member for Birkenhead and many colleagues far more distinguished than me--the late Sir Brandon Rhys Williams prominent among them.
I can hardly believe it. We now have a Labour Front-Bench team putting before the House measures that would extend further up the income scale all the worst features of the changes that we made, while starting to unravel the one really good thing that we did in welfare: the encouragement of the growth of occupational pensions and pensions for the self-employed. We were scoring about five out of 10; the present Government seem determined to score about nought out of 10.
That jibe is not quite fair. A few small provisions round the margins are good. I welcome the introduction of the pension for widowers. A close friend, who was a
contemporary of mine at school, is bringing up a little boy. He has had mental health problems and he is struggling, and it is grossly unfair that he does not get similar treatment to a widow. I welcome the fact that several small measures in the Bill will be helpful.
The truth is, though, that this measure characterises everything that is worst about the new Labour party. It bears no resemblance to the traditional views of Labour, grounded in the Beveridge report, which is the basis for the post-war consensus. Clement Attlee would not recognise it. It bears no resemblance to the modern thinking on occupational pensions that spans so much of the political spectrum. It bears no resemblance to the pledges and aims that were so articulately outlined by Labour Front-Bench Members before the general election. It is nonsense.
I acknowledged that the problems in the process started with the mistakes that we made in 1988, but it is incredible how, month after month, at Social Security Question Time, in social security debates and when measures are brought before the House, whenever an hon. Member says, "But you are introducing more means-testing in the face of all the evidence of the damage that it does," Ministers respond by saying, "But the Conservatives did it first."
Mr. Roger Berry (Kingswood):
It is tempting to follow the hon. Member for Canterbury (Mr. Brazier). For weeks, I have observed the Tory party reinventing itself as the party that opposes means-testing and supports the contributory principle. That sits ill with all that the previous Government did, but Back Benchers have only 10 minutes each in which to speak in the debate, so I shall not spend more time on that.
I shall say a few words about the provisions in this detailed, complex and important Bill that relate to disabled people. I happen to be secretary of the all-party disablement group. We made a written submission to the Secretary of State at the end of December 1998, and I should like to place on record our gratitude for our meeting with my right hon. Friend a few weeks ago. I am pretty certain that the ink was dry on the Bill when we had that meeting; nevertheless, that was an important opportunity to put across some of the views that have been expressed by the all-party group--views that, I make so bold as to suggest, are widely reflected by other disability organisations.
I warmly welcome a number of provisions in the Bill, such as the extension of the higher rate mobility component of disability living allowance to three and four-year-olds. I also warmly welcome increased benefits for severely disabled young people, and I acknowledge in particular the extension by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State of benefit improvements for severely disabled young people up to the age of 25. I am sure that that extension is, in part, a response to the consultation exercise.
Other measures that the Government are implementing, but are not directly the concern of the Bill, have also been widely welcomed. In the consultation document, for example, the commitment to a disability income guarantee and the expansion of specialist disability services were highlighted. Those are two examples of measures that do not require primary legislation and are therefore not in the Bill.
The all-party disablement group, and disability organisations generally, warmly welcome a great deal in the Bill, in the consultation paper and in other areas of work that the Government are undertaking. However, there are some serious areas of concern and I want to take up from my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field) the issue of incapacity benefit.
I urge my colleagues in the Government to show the same understanding for the arguments made by disability organisations in relation to their worries about incapacity benefit that has been shown in relation to their representations about severe disablement allowance. The Bill proposes changes to the entitlement conditions for incapacity benefit. The principle is to be established that only those who have worked recently should be entitled to that benefit. Specifically, certain contribution conditions will have to have been satisfied in respect of the previous two years.
The effect of that is that about 170,000 fewer people--about 10 per cent. of those currently eligible--will be eligible for incapacity benefit. Therefore the question needs to be asked: why should 170,000 people, who are unable to work because they are disabled or becausethey have a long-term illness, not receive an income maintenance benefit as a result of being unable to work and have to rely, if they qualify, on means-tested income support?
The argument which has been made, and which was alluded to by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, is that people have received incapacity benefit who should not have received it. Reference is frequently made to the fact that the previous Administration allegedly encouraged people to claim incapacity benefit rather than unemployment benefit. That was the first argument for this policy.
I want to make two points. First, if the Government have evidence suggesting that people who should not receive incapacity benefit will receive it, the solution is to sort out the gateway. It is quite simple: if the problem is that we fear that what may have happened in the past will happen in the future--that people who are not entitled to incapacity benefit will somehow access it--we should deal with that through the operation of the gateway for that benefit--the all-work test or whatever replaces it. That is the sensible thing to do. I urge the Government seriously to consider the implication of denying tens of thousands of genuine claimants their right to the benefit because it is assumed that some may not be entitled to it. The solution to the problem is perfectly clear.
Whenever it is said that in the past people who should not have accessed incapacity benefit have done so, it should be remembered that that is in the past. This Bill applies to new claimants. With the greatest respect to the Government, it is not good enough simply to look backwards and argue that that is why we should remove people from incapacity benefit, because we are dealing with new claimants.
Clause 51 provides for regulation-making powers to protect people who have not recently paid contributions because of caring responsibilities for which they receive invalid care allowance. However, some people cannot be protected in that way. They may have been looking after young children or combining child care responsibilities with part-time work. Some carers may not have claimed invalid care allowance. Others who have paid contributions for many years may become unemployed and then become disabled. Individuals with an extensive work record who subsequently experience a period of unemployment before becoming disabled will find that their contributions count for nothing.
There has been much reference to the "something-for-nothing problem". It is rather insulting to accuse people who have fallen on hard times of wanting something for nothing when they have paid their taxes and national insurance contributions. The people whom I have in mind have a contribution record of 10, 20 or 30 years. After a period of unemployment, they then become disabled. Their problem is not something for nothing, but rather nothing for something. Although they have made their contributions, they are to be denied benefit. That will produce some absurd outcomes. For example, somebody who has worked for 10 years, is unemployed for two years and then becomes disabled is unable to get incapacity benefit, whereas someone who has been unemployed for 10 years and worked for two years can get the benefit.
I shall try to put this tactfully--I am already in trouble anyway. This problem needs to be thought through and I desperately hope that the good sense that the Government have shown in listening to representations on the severe disability allowance will be extended to the grave concerns expressed about incapacity benefit.
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