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Mr. John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings): I shall dwell on three aspects of the report. I was pleased to serve on the Select Committee and I am grateful for the positive comments that have been made about its work, although the bulk of the credit must go to our Chairman. I am sure that he will reward me for that compliment at an appropriate time in an appropriate place.
My first point relates to development in the flood plain and I wish to amplify some of the remarks that have been made already. There is not much more to say, except that it is important to increase the statutory responsibility on local authorities to take account of Environment Agency advice. There is already a responsibility to consult, but it should have more force than that. I speak as someone who is very interested in local democracy and who values the independence of local authorities, but this issue is so important and the record is so patchy under the current arrangements that we need to strengthen the arm of the Environment Agency.
I also entirely endorse the Committee's recommendations and the comments in the debate today about flood risk warning. The Government made helpful comments on that issue in their response and also on the warnings for the people who buy houses in the flood plain. Many of the communities affected have an incoming population who do not necessarily understand the history of the issue. The local population may be well aware of the problems, but those who move into an area of flood risk may not understand them. Such people live in blissful ignorance until the worst occurs.
The second matter about which I wish to comment is drainage. I felt that my right hon. Friend from Somerset--
Mr. Hayes:
I am sorry, I should have known.
Mr. King:
Of course you should.
Mr. Hayes:
I was about to criticise mildly my right hon. Friend the Member for Bridgwater (Mr. King) and I am tempted now to strengthen that criticism, but I will not. I disagree with him somewhat about internal drainage boards. He is right to say that they are important, but they are more important than he implied. They are a model of the public and private sectors working together, as lean organisations that act and deliver a product in a very cost effective way. They embody a degree of local knowledge and understanding that is unparalleled--as my right hon. Friend acknowledged. I strongly support IDBs.
The Committee probably paid too little attention to drainage, perhaps because coastal defence and protection from the sea is more dramatic. The need for such protection is more tangible, but drainage is the success story that cannot be seen. Its success makes it invisible and, with the benefit of hindsight, I think that we may have spent too little time on it. I wish to advertise the many benefits and qualities of IDBs, which are reflected in the Government's response. I know that the Minister enjoys a long relationship with those bodies and is well regarded by them.
The third aspect of the report on which I shall dwell is the management of flood defence and drainage, which the Committee considered in some detail. At first glance, the structure and organisation seems extremely complex. However, it is difficult to deliver a better alternative, with one exception--the district council's responsibility for coastal defence. When we visited Happisburgh in Norfolk, for example, the idea that the district council should be responsible for funding some of the significant strategic work there seemed to me to be a bit of a nonsense. It is too onerous and demanding a responsibility for a district council to accept. The Chairman of the Select Committee and I were chatting about that, and he asked whether I wanted local democracy for drainage but not for coastal policy. My response was, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Drainage works well and has stood the test of time, but coastal policy needs review.
I hope that the Minister will be able to respond to the three main points that I have made.
The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr. Elliot Morley):
In the limited time that remains, I shall certainly try to respond to the points that have been made. All hon. Members who have spoken have mentioned the quality of the report produced by the Agriculture Committee. It is an excellent piece of work, which I enjoyed reading. It raised a great many questions, as I hope was evident from the Government's comprehensive response.
For the sake of the record, I should declare my involvement as vice-president of the Association of Drainage Authorities--a post that I am proud to hold. I echo what the hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr. Hayes) said about drainage being very much a part of flood defence and coastal defence. The Government's belief that we should adopt an integrated approach to those matters informed our response to the Select Committee report.
I absolutely agree that we need sustainable defences, as they will allow national and local economies to prosper and will protect life and property. As has been noted, we must also take account of wildlife sites of international importance.
The hon. Member for Mid-Worcestershire (Mr. Luff) made a good and succinct opening speech, in which he made it clear that flood and coastal defences are a very complex matter. I do not know whether the Select Committee is psychic, but its report was produced in a year when we have had some of the worst floods and rains for more than a century. We must not forget the tragedy suffered by people who have lost homes, agricultural land
and even their lives as a result. I know that the House accepts that the bad weather caused disruption across the country.
Mr. Gareth R. Thomas (Harrow, West):
My hon. Friend will know of my interest in the Hatch End flood alleviation scheme. If implemented, that scheme would complete a programme of measures to protect against flooding in the north-east part of my constituency. Will he assure me that he will keep under review the funding and priority rating formula that he and his officials use to determine whether such schemes go ahead?
Mr. Morley:
I know that my hon. Friend has raised this matter before, and that he has written to the Ministry about it. I shall write to my hon. Friend with the latest information and I shall take into consideration the points that he has raised.
I do not know whether the visit that my right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime Minister made by helicopter was occasioned by flood levels, but the hon. Member for Mid-Worcestershire very nearly also got a similar visit from me. I should point out that it is very rare for me to travel by helicopter, but I wanted to observe the floods in the Severn valley and to visit Bewdley. However, the helicopter developed engine trouble, which does not fill one with confidence before a journey, and the weather was so bad--perhaps not surprisingly--that it was impossible to fly and I had to make the journey by road. Unfortunately, that meant that I was unable to visit the hon. Gentleman's constituency, which was on my original itinerary.
I apologise for that, and I assure the hon. Gentleman that I was aware of the problems his constituency faced as a result of the floods. However, I thought it was a little hard of the local newspaper to criticise me for not wearing Wellington boots that day. I must point out that I did not go to the Severn valley to wade through floods; I went to make sure that people were being looked after and that the proper procedures were in hand.
Mr. Luff:
The newspaper has apologised handsomely.
Mr. Morley:
I accept that apology with the good grace with which it was given.
We have to accept, in relation to coastal defence, that we cannot ring Britain with a concrete wall, and it would be undesirable to do so. The hon. Member for Mid-Worcestershire was right to say that that is generally recognised. The report provoked a good debate, in which many sensible points were made. It got people thinking about the question of coastal defence and about the best strategies to be adopted.
The hon. Member for Mid-Worcestershire raised three points. The first had to do with institutions and democratic input, a matter that was also raised by the hon. Member for Lewes (Mr. Baker). The Government believe that it is difficult to draw a distinction between coastal defence and inland defence, and that effective delivery depends on co-ordination.
As a Minister, I am a great supporter of local government input in such matters. I believe that there ought to be local accountability and local democracy. I accept that in some cases, as a result of decisions taken locally about funding, the full standard spending
assessment has not been passed on by local councils to regional flood defence committees. I have written to a number of councils expressing my concern, but I have to tell the hon. Member for Lewes that some of the worst offenders are councils under Liberal Democrat control. I have written also to the Local Government Association, because this is an issue for the whole country. However, it seems that local councils have been better at passing on the increased SSA this year.
In connection with funding, we have pledged an increase of £23 million over the next three years for flood and coastal defence, and we have put in place a 6.3 per cent. increase in SSAs for regional flood defence committees. In addition, following the Bye report, we have earmarked £3 million this year to improve flood warning. A number of hon. Members raised the matter of flood plains. We intend to keep the present guidance under review, and we are also introducing flood plain mapping. We have made a start on long-term policy with the implementation of the Bye report. Targets have been set, and we recognise the case made by the report for managed realignment.
No Government can enter into open-ended commitments over compensation for land loss. That process has been going on for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. We have pledged, as part of the Agenda 2000 reforms, to widen our agri-environment schemes and, through managed realignment, give some support to landowners who lose land. However, those cases would have to be dealt with on their merits.
I can tell my hon. Friend the Member for Braintree (Mr. Hurst) that I have visited Canvey island, and I am glad to say that the defences there are in good shape and that we shall keep them under review. In addition, I can tell my hon. Friend the Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey (Mr. Wyatt) that there is a balance to be struck between the local industry and some important environmental sites, such as the sites of special scientific
interest in the north Kent marshes. I accept that the regional development agency has a responsibility in that matter, and it will have an increasing role to play.
My hon. Friend the Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey asked about the respective roles of the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions and the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. We have no great ideological hang-ups about which Department should have lead responsibility in a variety of matters, but the question was considered in the Select Committee report. MAFF is responsible for land use: as the bulk of the land in question is farm land, it therefore makes sense, in terms of co-ordination, for MAFF to deliver flood defence and coastal defence planning as part of an integrated land-use policy. However, there is very close co-ordination between MAFF and the DETR, and both Departments are charged to develop joint planning as part of the comprehensive spending review. By that means, we will be able to integrate some of our activities.
12.20 pm
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