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Jane Kennedy (Lord Commissioner to the Treasury): I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.
Northern Ireland
10 pm
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr. Paul Murphy): I beg to move,
- That the draft North/South Co-operation (Implementation Bodies)(Northern Ireland) Order 1999 be approved.
Members of the Assembly dealt with the10 Departments of the Executive that are to run Northern Ireland after devolution. The House of Commons approved the order setting up the 10 Departments of State in Northern Ireland, as did the other place some weeks ago. Today, we are dealing with what was known during the talks process as strand 2 of the agreement. We are dealing with what is termed the North-South Ministerial Council--a body based in many ways on the European Council of Ministers--which is to deal with areas of co-operation between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
The agreement specified areas in which co-operation may occur, and those areas were extended and debated in the Assembly on 15 February--they include transport, tourism, the environment, agriculture, education and health--although the details are to be decided by the Council itself.
The order provides the statutory basis for the six agreed so-called implementation bodies, to deal with inland waterways; food safety; trade and business development; language; and aquaculture and marine matters. The details are in the Library for hon. Members to consult.
The order deals with how the bodies will operate, including details on their functions; annual reports and accounts; grants; staffing; and other issues. It is important for the House to realise that after devolution the British Government will have no role in the day-to-day operation of the bodies.
The two Governments were charged by the agreement with drawing up the legislation and the treaty, which is in schedule 1 of the document and was signed by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland's Foreign Affairs Minister in Dublin this morning. All the details on the implementation bodies and the treaty itself are the result of intensive negotiations before Christmas, ending in the early hours of 18 December, after Christmas, and indeed right up until only yesterday.
Dr. Norman A. Godman (Greenock and Inverclyde):
Part VII of the order deals with aquaculture and marine matters. What is the likelihood of the implementation body engaging in matters relating to the common fisheries policy or fish farming?
Mr. Murphy:
My hon. Friend doubtless heard me when I said that the way in which the bodies will operate
The negotiations continued until yesterday. That explains the relative lateness of the documentation, which right hon. and hon. Members might normally have expected to receive earlier. I apologise to the House for the lateness, but these are unusual circumstances and times. We have discussed the issue through the usual channels and, of course, much of the detail is already in the public domain and has been discussed and debated in the agreement itself, in the various meetings of the Northern Ireland Assembly and in documents that the right hon. Member for Upper Bann (Mr. Trimble) and the Deputy First Minister have circulated to all parties in Northern Ireland in the past few weeks.
Another reason why we are dealing with the matter today is that the Government pledged to complete all the necessary legislative preparations for devolution, and all the issues in connection with the agreement as far as they affect devolution, by 10 March. That we have now done, if the House approves the motion--as I presume it will--and if the other place approves it tomorrow. The only step then remaining will be for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to judge whether it appears to her, as it says in the agreement,
Dr. Godman:
My hon. Friend mentioned the British-Irish Council. If that body is to have a fixed locus, I can think of no better city than Glasgow. The Nordic Council has a fixed locus, with a secretariat of some70 people. I know that Liverpool has a good case, but I do not believe that Belfast, Dublin or London has a case. It should be Glasgow--does my hon. Friend agree?
Mr. Murphy:
I would get into terrible trouble if I agreed anything on the British-Irish Council and its secretariat. Stranraer, the Isle of Man, Liverpool and Cardiff have all expressed an interest, and we shall have to wait and see. It is a matter for the council itself and the two Governments to discuss.
My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State indicated that she would be ready to call a meeting of the Assembly as early as 10 March to allow the so-called d'Hondt procedure to be run. As hon. Members will know, that procedure would trigger the formation of the new Assembly's Executive. She has made a further announcement about that matter today. She announced that in her consultations with Northern Ireland parties she heard differing views. Some wanted the running of d'Hondt to be delayed and others wanted it to go ahead immediately. All those who support the agreement remain committed to achieving full implementation of all its aspects as quickly as possible, and all the parties said that they wanted to move forward on an inclusive basis.
In the light of the differing views, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has decided that 10 March would not be the best time to run the d'Hondt procedure. She has concluded that if it were to be run, it would not produce an effective Executive on which both communities would be represented. Indeed, some parties feared that running d'Hondt this week might even collapse the process. My right hon. Friend also recognised that the decision could not be put off indefinitely. Therefore, she announced today that she would call a meeting of the Assembly to run the d'Hondt procedure no later than the week beginning 29 March. That is the week of Good Friday, which is the anniversary of the agreement. That will give the parties the time and space to find a way forward. Many of the Northern Ireland political leaders will be visiting the USA. There will be opportunities to build confidence and to talk informally in preparation for an intensive round of discussions on their return to Belfast.
Many of us find such an announcement disappointing. However, as my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has made clear, we can, with determination and courage, take the next steps towards bringing the agreement to fruition. We will work closely with the Irish Government and all other supporters of the agreement to find a constructive way forward.
It is against that background that the House is considering the order. It will put in place the new implementation bodies, which are an important piece of the new infrastructure under the agreement. The bodies will operate fully in accordance with the terms of the agreement as is spelled out in the treaty attached to the order. Ministers in the North-South Ministerial Council who are responsible for the various bodies--or any additional bodies that they may decide to establish by future agreement--will be fully accountable to the Assembly and to Oireachtas.
Mechanisms to ensure proper accountability and transparency were included in the Northern Ireland Act 1998. They include the requirement that the Executive Committee and the Assembly should be notified of the dates and agendas for meetings of the ministerial council. Northern Ireland Ministers will be accountable to the Assembly for their actions in the council, just as they will be for their other responsibilities.
By law, Assembly Ministers who participate in the council will be required to act in accordance with the decisions of the Assembly or the Executive Committee. Northern Ireland Ministers will also require Assembly approval for any decisions that go beyond their defined authority. Any agreement in the council that requires new legislation will require the support of the Assembly. No agreement to establish a new implementation body can come into operation without the specific approval of the Assembly.
We have a balanced package of measures to enhance co-operation, north and south. The bodies will operate within a clear framework of democratic accountability as defined in the agreement, supporting legislation and the procedures of the Assembly. The bodies, and any others that may be agreed in the council, will provide a foundation for close co-operation between the Northern Ireland Administration and the Irish Government.
"that sufficient progress has been made in implementing the Belfast Agreement, to permit the transfer of powers to the new Assembly."
That transfer would be the devolution order itself, which will be debated by this House and the other place.
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