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Mr. Denzil Davies (Llanelli): My right hon. Friend rightly called for a root-and-branch reform of the Commission. Which institution of the European Union has the power to carry out such reform? If proposals are made for such reform, will they require a treaty to ratify them?
The Prime Minister: That depends on the nature of the reforms proposed, but we already have in the Amsterdam treaty some issues that were left over for the purpose of sorting out enlargement including, for example, the structure of the new Commission. In any event, we will consider some of those issues very carefully over the coming months. We should bind into that an opportunity to analyse some of the fundamental reforms that we can make. My right hon. Friend asks about the correct institution, but the correct beginning of the process of reform is with the Council of Ministers.
Sir Teddy Taylor (Rochford and Southend, East): Does the Prime Minister agree that the basic problem is the fact that those 20 little emperors in Brussels have massive powers? They are not highly qualified, experienced civil servants, subject to disciplines and controls, but redundant politicians who are faced with daily temptations on the basis of the ever-increasing powers given to Brussels. While a minority take the view that Europe would be strengthened if the Commission were to close its doors tomorrow, does the Prime Minister agree that we could improve the administration of, and spending controls in, Europe if powers such as agricultural management and foreign aid were returned to member states?
The Prime Minister: I do not believe that it would be in our interests to renegotiate the entire terms of European Union membership or of the institutions of the EU. I must disagree with the hon. Gentleman, and our disagreement will simply remain. In respect of the hon. Gentleman's very
harsh words about the Commissioners, I must say that I dug out an interesting statement that he made when Mr. Jacques Santer was appointed. The hon. Gentleman said:
- "He is a quiet, decent, responsible person and we can congratulate John Major for accepting him."
Crises will therefore continue to confront the Prime Minister and everyone else in the common market. We must understand that no matter how well meaning the proposals are, the common market will continue to have one nation state scratching another's back to get what it wants. That is the problem that the whole common market must face.
The Prime Minister:
If we consider the balance of our interest in being in or out of the European Union, we can see that it is fundamentally in our interest to be in it. It is in our interest in terms of jobs, trade, industry and influence in the world. Scratching each other's backs is one way of describing what happens, but there is a mutual self-interest in being part of the European Union. Whatever changes and reforms we make in the EU, I believe that Britain is better in than out.
Mr. John D. Taylor (Strangford):
I accept that Her Majesty's Government have a role in the appointment of the new President of the Commission and the nomination of two United Kingdom Commissioners. Have the Government any say, however, in the appointment of other Commissioners? In particular, have they any say in the reappointment of one retiring Commissioner who is the subject of a public inquiry into the disappearance of £50,000 in his own country?
Secondly, in so far as centre right politics in Europe is concerned, does the Prime Minister agree with new thinking in Europe that the Commission should be appointed by the European Parliament, not by national Governments?
The Prime Minister:
If the right hon. Gentleman is saying that the European Commission should be appointed by the European Parliament, not national Governments, I do not agree. It is better that nation states appoint Commissioners.
In respect of the right hon. Gentleman's other point about the appointment of other Commissioners, of course we have a say. All Commission appointments are discussed at the Council of Ministers.
Mr. Austin Mitchell (Great Grimsby):
May I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his proposals, which
The Prime Minister:
The board has effectively gone and it is right that the President of the Commission takes responsibility. My hon. Friend mentions that the European Scrutiny Committee has raised the issue of dealing with the problems of fraud; it is fair to say that this country and the various Committees of this House have been raising that issue for many years. My point is that we now have an opportunity in Europe to push that reform with the agreement of other countries. I do not know how it will be seen by our national media, but it is interesting that the media of other European countries see the whole issue as giving a fair wind to those who want to reform the system, once and for all.
Sir Michael Spicer (West Worcestershire):
If we are facing institutional corruption and fraud, to borrow Sir William Macpherson's phrase, what proposals does the Prime Minister have for institutional reform?
The Prime Minister:
The proposals I made in the statement for changes in the whole system of financial accountability, disciplinary proceedings in respect of Commission staff and awarding of contracts are all institutional changes, as is the establishment of an independent fraud office. In the longer term, we should look at ways in which we can introduce a better system of accountability between member states and the European Union. Those are all changes that we can look at and do.
Mr. Harry Barnes (North-East Derbyshire):
Surely it is not only a matter of appointing a stronger President who has even greater authority--I think my right hon. Friend spoke about greater authority being established--but a matter of having democratic arrangements in place, so that whoever is there is controlled by those provisions. Should we not move to a system whereby the bodies that make decisions are the Parliaments--the European Parliament and the Parliaments of the nation states?
The Prime Minister:
There is a case for looking at how to strengthen the link between national Parliaments and the European institutions, and that is what we proposed at Cardiff during our presidency. When I talk about the new President of the Commission having strengthened authority, I mean that we should appoint someone who is clearly a political heavyweight and who can make the European Commission into the sort of body that Europe needs. However, I am also suggesting, as we proposed at Cardiff at the conclusion of our presidency,
Sir Edward Heath (Old Bexley and Sidcup):
I agree with the Prime Minister's analysis of the situation and that his proposals are worth deep consideration. I would suggest only that when discussing those matters with the other countries, the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind the danger of being told that the British just want to run everything. That is a real danger, which he has encountered once before.
The good side of the situation is that, for the first time, the European Parliament has been prepared to act and to act decisively. Things will never be the same again, because, in future, the Parliament will always take an attitude and carry it through. That has to be taken into account. I suggest that that gives every one of us a powerful argument to use in the forthcoming European elections, which is to say to our own electorate that the time has now come when they should use their vote to get the representation in the European Parliament that we ought to have, rather than having the smallest of the lot.
The Prime Minister:
I agree entirely that it is right that we try to get representation in the European Parliament that will stick up for Britain's interests in a sensible way. It is also true that we are not telling the rest of Europe that we in Britain know how to run everything and everyone has to take our instructions. However, with a Government who believe in a strong and influential position for Britain in Europe, we now have the chance to build the alliance necessary to get the right changes in Europe. I say with respect to my predecessor as Prime Minister that, at the beginning of his premiership and before his party put the manacles on him, he tried to achieve that and to construct a different set of relationships in Europe. It is possible for us to do that now, but we shall succeed only if we recognise and say, right up front, that Britain is a key partner in Europe. We shall play our role as a partner in Europe and, in doing that, fashion a Europe of which this country can be proud.
"This is the fourth successive year in which the Court has not been able to provide assurance about the legality and regularity of the accounts of the general budget."
There remains the problem of the existing Commission and its collective responsibility. Without wishing to bash Europe in any way--there is no need; Europe is self-bashing these days--may I suggest that we should follow the practice of a president of a company that has failed because of incompetence, nepotism, selfishness and lack of leadership among its board? The board should go, and we should call in the administrator.
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