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Mr. Nick Gibb (Bognor Regis and Littlehampton): Will the hon. Lady give way?
Dawn Primarolo: Yes, but I shall then try to make progress.
Mr. Gibb: Will the hon. Lady explain why, at this late stage, when the Bill is on Report and is to receive a Third Reading later this evening, the Government have tabled a new clause? Why are the regulations not available to be examined before we debate and vote on the new clause? It is intolerable that we will not be receiving those
regulations before the Bill receives its Third Reading tonight. Is that not a sign that the Government are in complete disarray over the Bill? It is a sign of an ill-thought-through Bill and clear incompetence.
Dawn Primarolo: I would expect no less a comment from the hon. Gentleman, who could not recognise the purpose of quality child care if it were staring him in the face. We debated that issue in Committee several times, and the Government have responded positively because good points were made. Two Departments have had to work together closely to draft the regulations and ensure that they can be placed before the House when the proper consultation has taken place. I answered the question of the hon. Member for Beckenham about when the regulations would be available and about the consultation process when the regulations were in draft form. If the hon. Gentleman had been paying a little more attention, he might have caught that.
I return to the new clause. Subsection (1) sets out the general principle, purpose and limits of the new clause. It will enable the Secretary of State to make regulations for a scheme to establish a new category of child care provider, the costs of which will be taken into account in calculating the working families tax credit and the disabled persons tax credit.
Subsection (2) says that the scheme will enable accredited organisations--this returns to the point made by the hon. Member for Beckenham--to approve the new type of child care provider within the regulations. It will enable grants or loans to be made to the accredited organisations, and them to charge prospective providers reasonable fees for that assessment. It will also allow the Secretary of State to make such provision as is necessary.
Subsection (3) confirms that the accredited organisations will be those accredited by the Secretary of State under the rules set out in the scheme.
Mrs. Lait:
On a point of detail, which is not clear from my reading of the new clause, am I correct in believing that the registered organisations will be registered under education Acts by the Department for Education and Employment, not by local authorities?
Dawn Primarolo:
Yes, the power to confer the accreditation will lie with the Secretary of State.
Subsection (4) sets out the powers to make the rules for the scheme in regulations and states that they are to be made by statutory instrument under the negative procedure, under which either House can make a resolution or annul them.
Amendment No. 14 is consequential on the new clause and will enable the Secretary of State to incur the costs of administering the new child care scheme. It will amend the Bill's financial provisions to authorise the Secretary of State to use the moneys provided by the vote of Parliament, a point about which the hon. Member for Northavon (Mr. Webb) asked me earlier.
We have placed a memorandum explaining the details of how the scheme will work in the House of Commons Library, and copies were made available.
Mr. Eric Pickles (Brentwood and Ongar):
This is a technical point. I may have misheard the hon. Lady. Did she say that the registration will be the responsibility of
Dawn Primarolo:
Yes, for the purposes of eligibility and tax credit, the Secretary of State sets the regulations for children over eight years of age. The hon. Gentleman will know that consultation has been completed and that the details concerning the regulations that apply generally to child care and all child care providers are being considered by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State. When he arrives at final decisions, the provisions that are before us will fit in with the regulations, whatever they may be.
Miss Anne McIntosh (Vale of York):
I have a simple question on new clause 5 and the hon. Lady's answer will assist me and, perhaps, the House. Has it passed the plain English test?
Dawn Primarolo:
I do not know. Is the hon. Lady about to tell me that it has not? We do our best, but if she feels that the clause needs some correction, I should be more than happy to take note of what she has to say. She echoes the point that the hon. Member for Beckenham was pressing earlier about the need for the regulations to be simple, while being clear and precise in their intention.
Broadly, the proposal will allow the Secretary of State to establish a scheme that will accredit organisations that have an appropriate quality assurance scheme for child care providers. Quality assurance schemes will need to cover the way in which the providers ensure the safety and welfare of the children in their care, look at the quality of the activities offered to the children and ensure that they are cared for equally.
Accreditation can be conditional and organisations may be required to supply to the Inland Revenue information about approved providers and monitor the operation of their quality assurance schemes. Once accredited, organisations will be able to approve child care providers who reach the appropriate agreed standard, and the tax credit rules will then enable the costs of child care by these approved providers to be eligible for help.
Miss McIntosh:
Will the hon. Lady explain to me what a quality assurance scheme is? Who will define what such a scheme is? Will it be uniformly applied throughout the United Kingdom?
Dawn Primarolo:
Quality assurance will be laid out in detail in the regulations. It will cover the period of accreditation; the agreement of the organisation to be monitored and evaluated and to keep and produce records when required; the establishment of an arbitration system by the organisation for the use of child care providers who are unhappy with the decision not to approve them; and the sort of information that organisations will need to provide to parents, child care providers, the Inland Revenue and relevant national authorities. As I said earlier, it would have to cover the health, safety and welfare of children, including the employment of suitable staff, quality of activities and programmes offered to children and, of course, the security of the children.
Mr. Bercow:
Earlier, we talked about simplicity and intelligibility. Perhaps I may press the hon. Lady on
Dawn Primarolo:
I think I have answered that question--and once the draft regulations are available for scrutiny, I look forward to the hon. Gentleman casting his beady eyes over them and assisting us, both in achieving clarity and with plain English.
The regulations setting up the scheme will be made by the Secretary of State for Education and Employment, and they will be for the specific purpose of extending the range of child care eligible for the child care tax credits.
Mrs. Lait:
I am simply asking for information, as the proposals are so important and so new to us. Under which Act will the Secretary of State for Education and Employment make the regulations?
Dawn Primarolo:
The power to make the regulations is conferred by the Bill. The Secretary of State for Education and Employment is the relevant Minister. The power to create the regulations is covered by the clause, and the Secretary of State has that power as part of his responsibility for education.
Mrs. Lait:
I am sorry to pursue the hon. Lady. Although the power to make the regulations is provided under the Bill, it must surely come under the Department for Education and Employment's own legislation, as does, for example, the legislation providing for the registration of private and state schools, and thereby allowing the Department to inspect. I am asking under which Act of the DfEE the clubs will be registered.
Dawn Primarolo:
The Secretary of State has powers to set regulations relating to child care. Clearly, that is under review. I do not have the reference to hand, but I shall be happy to get the information that the hon. Lady seeks. She will understand that the Bill gives the power for the purpose only of tax credits, to extend eligibility for that purpose only, while the Secretary of State completes his consultation on the regulation of child care to fit in with the national child care strategy.
Mr. Pickles:
It would be helpful if hon. Lady would give an undertaking to confirm before Third Reading where the authorisation is provided for in statute. If it is any help to her, I think that it is in the Children Act 1989.
4.45 pm
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