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CHURCH COMMISSIONERS
The hon. Member for Middlesbrough, representing the Church Commissioners, was asked--
Redundant Churches
33. Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby): What discussions he has had with English Heritage regarding that body's support for bell towers of redundant churches. [75998]
Mr. Stuart Bell (Second Church Estates Commissioner, representing the Church Commissioners): Redundant churches are the responsibility of the relevant diocese pending a decision
on their future. They then become the responsibility of the new owner if an alternative use is agreed, or the Churches Conservation Trust, if they are to be preserved by that body. It follows from this that we have had no discussions with English Heritage.
Mr. Robathan: Is the hon. Gentleman aware that a recent newspaper report stated that English Heritage was placing such strict criteria on the repair of bell towers that some--redundant or otherwise--would not be able to ring in the millennium because the repairs would cost too much? I know from my church in Leicestershire that English Heritage is so strict as to be absurd. English Heritage does a good job, but will he and the commissioners ensure that the merits of a building are not judged at such an absurd level that the building can no longer operate in the way intended?
Mr. Bell: The Church does not wish to prevent anyone from ringing their church bells for the millennium, and English Heritage has regular meetings with the Central Council of Church Bell Ringers to discuss matters such as those raised by the hon. Gentleman.
I could not let this opportunity pass without referring to the bell ringing exercise in Aston, Birmingham yesterday, during a football match at Aston Villa--not too far from your constituency, Madam Speaker. We are always happy to announce that more people attend church services over the weekend than attend football matches. We like church bells to be rung, whether from redundant churches or otherwise.
Church Income
34. Mr. Simon Hughes (Southwark, North and Bermondsey): What plans they have to use opportunities afforded by the millennium to increase the income of the Church. [76000]
Mr. Stuart Bell (Second Church Estates Commissioner, representing the Church Commissioners): As we move into the new millennium, the Church Commissioners will continue to manage the endowment funds entrusted to them to maximise their support for the Church's ministry over the long term. Any initiative to increase the income of the Church of England as a whole would be the responsibility of the recently created Archbishops Council.
Mr. Hughes: Could the hon. Gentleman talk to the Church Commissioners and to the Archbishops Council to see if they would look at three ways of bringing more money in to the Church? First, those of us who go--particularly those who are well off--could be encouraged to pay a tithe from their income, as people used to do. Secondly, those who do not normally go to church could be invited to go at least once next year, because many who do not go still value it hugely. Thirdly, those who do not want to go to worship could be encouraged at least to visit the physical church in this country, and possibly contribute to its work--which, again, such people often value, even if they do not want to be members.
Mr. Bell: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his suggestions, and I never miss an opportunity of talking to the two archbishops. It is one of my little privileges in
life to go to Lambeth palace and, when I next do so, I will raise those three matters. The Church Commissioners' balance sheet shows that there are £3.5 billion of assets, and a press conference to be held shortly to announce our results for the financial year will be encouraging to the hon. Gentleman.
Mrs. Virginia Bottomley (South-West Surrey): Is the hon. Gentleman aware that many people think that there is a spiritual lack in society? People of all faiths think that the spiritual dimension of the millennium should be recognised and that the Church Commissioners have a unique opportunity to put in place long-term resources to work for the wider community.
Mr. Bell: The Church is celebrating the millennium in many ways: with candles, with the millennium resolution and with the presence of the spirit zone in the dome at Greenwich. The Church and others greatly regret the fact that insufficient publicity is given to those measures. The Church of England remains the fifth largest Church in the world, and we have a huge membership in many forms and varieties. Propagating the Christian message in the millennium year will encourage people to come to worship and will renew and enhance our Christian spirit.
Ethical Investment
35. Mr. Paul Flynn (Newport, West): What proposals he has to enlarge the ethical element in the commissioners' portfolio. [76001]
Mr. Stuart Bell (Second Church Estates Commissioner, representing the Church Commissioners): The Church Commissioners and their investment managers are advised by the ethical investment working group on ethical issues that concern the central bodies of the Church of England. The portfolio will reflect those concerns, which means that, at the moment, about 10 per cent. of the United Kingdom stock market is excluded.
Mr. Flynn: I am grateful for that reply, as far as it went, but it did not answer the question whether the commissioners propose to enlarge their ethical investment. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that some of the new threats to the world come from companies that are indifferent to the environmental effects of their activities? Could not the commissioners, who were trail-blazers in ethical investment as far back as 1948, consider excluding from their portfolio companies that failed to support the multilateral agreement on investment, which was proposed last year?
Mr. Bell: The Church in its investments is not indifferent to those who are unfriendly to the environment. We note, for example, that the commissioners have shares in Shell, which very much regrets the pollution of the Manchester ship canal with refined oil from the Stanlow manufacturing complex in Ellesmere Port. The company has given an assurance that it will take the measures necessary to ensure that such an incident never happens again. The commissioners are fully advised on ethical investment through the working group. They continue to keep the matter under review and will take into account the suggestions made by my hon. Friend.
Mr. John Bercow (Buckingham): In view of its Government's adventurist foreign policy and disregard for human rights at home, does the hon. Gentleman agree that the ethical element in the Church Commissioners' investment portfolio would not be increased if they decided to invest in Zimbabwe?
Mr. Bell: The commissioners have a strong ethical investment policy. We certainly take the view, in relation to our investment in companies in this country, that nations have a right to defend themselves and to engage in peacekeeping initiatives. The ethical investment working group believes in the legitimacy of an indigenous defence industry supplying equipment under Government licence. We are bound by the criteria set by the working group, and we will seek to advance that policy if that is in the interests of the Church.
Parochial Finances
36. Mr. Andrew Lansley (South Cambridgeshire): What assessment he has made of the adequacy of the current level of financial support for the parochial ministry to prevent any long-term interregnums in clerical living. [76002]
Mr. Stuart Bell (Second Church Estates Commissioner, representing the Church Commissioners): The commissioners put £20 million a year into parochial ministry support. That amount was agreed after detailed discussion with dioceses. A guaranteed annuity is payable for the overwhelming majority of benefices when the incumbent is present. Long interregnums are not encouraged, but their length can be affected by various factors, including the availability of a suitable incumbent.
Mr. Lansley: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, if the support available to the parochial ministry is agreed to be adequate to avoid long interregnums, it is undesirable for such interregnums to occur as an instrument of Church policy? I hope that, through the medium of this question, the Church authorities will take that view and seek to implement it.
Mr. Bell: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. The Church of England does not generally encourage long interregnums. After nine months, the right of patronage and the legal rights of parochial church council representatives pass to the archbishop of the province, who then has nomination rights.
Redundant Churches
37. Mr. John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington): What representations the Church Commissioners have made to the Chancellor of the Exchequer for the exemption from VAT of charges for building repair works and security measures for redundant churches. [76003]
Mr. Stuart Bell (Second Church Estates Commissioner, representing the Church Commissioners): [Interruption.] I am sorry, Madam Speaker, I lost my place. The commissioners were co-signatories to a submission in November 1997 on behalf of the Church of England's national bodies to the Government's review of the taxation of charities which highlighted as a particular concern the VAT treatment of works to church buildings.
Mr. McDonnell: I am tempted to say:
- "seek, and ye shall find".
Mr. Bell: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his biblical advice. VAT on repairs to listed churches and cathedrals is estimated to have totalled about £16 million in 1993, of which the Church of England paid about £12 million. The question of VAT on church repairs has been raised ever since the introduction of VAT more than 25 years ago and it has met with a negative response from every Administration. I shall end with a biblical quotation:
- "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear."
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