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6.33 pm
Mr. Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield): It is a pleasure to participate in the debate, particularly because the issue was in fundamental need of being addressed. I declare my interest as a practising member of the Bar. I am particularly involved in personal injury and criminal law relating mainly to health and safety. I have said for some time that difficult issues in relation to access to justice have to be faced, and that change and amelioration are required to provide an efficient service. The Government deserve to be commended for their willingness to tackle the issue. I profoundly believe that if it is tackled properly and if we nudge the system in the right direction, with radical changes if they are required, we can have an efficient system of access to justice for the next century, continuing a fine tradition that has stood this country in good stead internationally for a long time.
I ask the House's indulgence while I dwell for a moment on principles. There is a great tendency to criticise lawyers and I dare say that such criticism is often justified. We often hear criticism in the House of our system of justice. The system of justice in this country, as anywhere else, is fallible, because it is a human system. Perfection is not achievable; we can only try to do our best. However, when we try to change the system, we would do well to avoid throwing the baby out with the bath water.
I have heard a continuous stream of praise from foreign countries for the way in which our system of justice operates. I have particular knowledge of and close associations with one foreign country--a near neighbour of ours. A number of nuggets stand out in that praise. Our system of justice and those who administer it are seen to have high standards of conduct and probity. However--this is the matter that the Government are right to address--standards of efficiency are not necessarily so high. The independence of our system of justice is also central to the respect that it is accorded. The independence of the judiciary and the lack of compartmentalisation of those who serve in the justice system are a matter of wonder to many who come from abroad. It is a central feature of our criminal justice system that lawyers are interchangeable and we have steered well clear of a public prosecutor system for advocacy in courts and of public defendants. The House would do well to bear in mind the fact that that meets with considerable praise and is compared favourably with countries that have such systems.
When we address the need for change in our system of access to justice, I am concerned to preserve what is good, while enabling change to meet the undoubted financial constraints that are placed on the system. There has been exponential growth in the funding of legal services,
particularly legal aid, over the past 25 years. It is a point of some pride that most of that growth has occurred under a Conservative Government. The figure rose from less than £100 million in 1979 to £1,000 million 11 years later. That hardly reflects a lack of concern from that Government about the principles of justice.
At the opening of Maidstone Crown court by Her Majesty the Queen, the point was made that the dispensation of justice is the original social service provided by the state. It is the basic contract by which people subordinate themselves to the state, in return for being provided with protection. It is, therefore, of particular importance that people should not be excluded from the system. One hundred years ago, a High Court judge said that justice was open to all, like the Ritz hotel. He was making the perfectly proper point that justice was for those who could afford it. We have come a long way in the past century, but I am troubled that some of the measures in the Bill would result in our turning our backs on the basic principle of access to justice for all.
I do not want to repeat the speeches that have already been made, but I should like to refer to some of the key issues in the Bill. The first, spoken about so eloquently by the hon. and learned Member for Medway (Mr. Marshall-Andrews) and others, is legal aid, the introduction of conditional fee agreements, their substitution for legal aid and the removal of legal aid from those who were previously entitled to enjoy it. From my experience as a practitioner, I know of the number of people who have fallen outside the legal aid net and therefore have found litigation beyond their means, but trying to solve that problem by removing a new raft of people from access to justice is a peculiar way to go about it.
Much has been said about personal injury. There is no doubt--the reasons have been properly spelled out--that, because personal injury often involves being maimed and disabled, it is of particular importance that people should be able to obtain compensation. I have no doubt that, under the legislation as it is drafted and under the rules as they will be introduced, many people with valid claims will be deprived of access to justice and of success in relation to those claims.
Under the legal aid system, personal injury legal aid has been one of the most successful sectors in terms of good results--I think that 91 per cent. was the figure quoted--so why has that sector been chosen as the one to be deprived of all access to legal aid? It beats me. It is ridiculous when the service is a small component of the total legal aid bill and the results have been so successful. There seems to be some hint of movement on that point. I hope that, in Committee, the Government will consider moving some way towards ensuring that the most vulnerable in society are still provided with access to legal aid.
Another issue on legal aid has not been touched on. There seems to be a general assumption, which I find curious, that just because certain issues do not involve personal injury and do not fall within the restricted categories that will be laid down in clause 29, the people affected should also be deprived of legal aid. Indeed, I understand the instruments to carry that out have already been drafted and are awaiting the passage of the Bill.
I am the first to accept that much litigation concerns commercial issues, where people may reasonably be required to make sound value judgments and where they
may have the funds necessary to fund their own litigation--classic areas where conditional fee agreements might work--but, as time goes on, legal aid will be withdrawn from many categories of litigation that are outside personal injury. The moment a case emerges, people will realise that they deserve support.
I give one example. There is much litigation concerning property rights. As I have experienced as a lawyer and an advocate--it has happened since the middle ages--frequently, the rich seek to assert property rights on those who cannot afford to litigate. The disputes involve rights of way and boundaries, and often concern people who have very limited means. Often, the redress that they seek is not damages, but an injunction, or some other form of protection against those who try to bully them. Much of that still goes on.
Under the legislation, soon, those people, however deserving their claim, will no longer be eligible for legal aid in any shape or form. Such litigants or potential litigants will not be able to get a conditional fee agreement. They will be deprived of access to justice. Hon. Members will find their postbags starting to fill with letters from those who, just as in the 19th century and earlier, are saying, "I have no access to justice. I cannot afford it. I have no ready money and no one is prepared to help me." That is scandalous, but it is one of the possible and likely consequences of the legislation, unless the rules, when they are introduced, make allowance and contingency for such possibilities. I do not believe that they will, because the Government appear to be embarked on a blanket approach. I hope that they are not, but it is worth pondering these matters. Personal injury on its own may be the classic example, but there are others.
Much has been said in general praise--the one point that has attracted praise--of the community legal service that is to be set up under the Bill. I have nothing against a community legal service--indeed, I welcome it--but, first, it will have to be properly funded. If one looks at the way in which that funding will occur, one must have serious doubts about whether sufficient money will be available.
There is a profound irony about the matter. In the past, community legal aid services were provided throughout the country by the high street solicitor. Indeed, one of the features of this country was that it had such a ready availability of legal services. I see the hon. Member for South Derbyshire (Mr. Todd) shake his head. I am mindful of the fact that the distribution could at times be sporadic, but when the green form scheme was working and when many high street solicitors had not lost their main crust of bread through the conveyancing monopoly, quite a large number were around to provide that service. The irony is that, having gradually started to reduce their number, we are producing a new service that is equally funded by the state to substitute for it. I hope that it provides an adequate service, but the fate of the poor old high street solicitor, who was uniquely dependent on state subsidy through the legal aid fund and other methods, does not bode particularly well.
I have served on the management committee of a law centre in Hammersmith. I am aware of the major contribution that the service can make, but the funding will have to be there, or this part of the Bill is mere puff.
I come to what troubles me most: the criminal defence service. That was where I cut my teeth in my career as a barrister. I started out at the Bar as a circuit practitioner, practising particularly in Kent, which had a reputation for its Bar mess, where people met, spoke, interchanged ideas and practised. It was held up as a model of its kind.
The central feature of the mess was the interchangeability of the advocates' functions. On Monday, one would be prosecuting and, on Tuesday, defending. That could go on. One would be against different ranges of opponents, but the body of advocates was held together by high standards of professional conduct. Professional conduct, especially in matters relating to criminal defence and prosecution work, is central to maintaining confidence in the administration of justice.
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