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Mr. Forth: Does the Minister accept that one must always be cautious when interpreting responses to consultation? The likelihood is that those respondents who tend to agree with what is being proposed and who have a particular interest write in to express their support. However, it is the responsibility of the House to consider the wider interests and views, particularly of those whom I am fond of calling the silent majority.
Kate Hoey: Of course, the results of consultation depend very much on the way in which it is directed at the public. I am sure that it did not have a major effect, but I wrote an article in every Premier and league club programme in the country--and got reactions, too. People who are against legislation are more likely to come forward during consultation. There were some criticisms in the consultation, and the hon. Member for West Chelmsford took account of them. For example, the alcohol ban was not included prescriptively but as a subject for consultation. He examined the results of the consultation and chose not to put that in the Bill. We support that decision.
On the international front, no one wants a repeat of the shameful scenes in Marseilles during France 98. Sadly, those images were beamed around the world and further fuelled the perception that all England supporters are violent thugs with no respect for others or their property.
I say again that many thousands of decent, law-abiding supporters follow England, and the Bill is in those law-abiding supporters' interest because their enjoyment is also ruined by the destructive and selfish actions of a small but disproportionately high-profile minority. We must act to protect the interests of law-abiding fans and promote the fact that supporters from this country can be as well behaved at matches played outside England and Wales as at domestic matches. That can be achieved only by partnership between supporters, the football authorities, the police and the Government. We started that process rolling by drawing up our action plan for France 98. We continued it through public consultation and are committed to ensuring an inclusive approach to make football matches safe and secure for those who wish to enjoy football and its unique atmosphere.
I said that hooliganism had not gone away. Those committed to breaking the law and using football as a platform for their activities know that violence or trouble inside grounds is likely to be prevented from happening and that when it occurs, it will be swiftly nipped in the bud. Hooligan behaviour is now more likely to occur some distance from the stadium, often some time before or after a match. The Bill would allow courts to make orders preventing attendance at matches on conviction for football-related offences committed within 24 hours, rather than the one or two hours in current legislation. I am pleased that the hon. Member for West Chelmsford spent some time with police intelligence officers, as I have. I pay tribute to their work across the country.
The measures will help to address the problems faced by the police, prosecutors and courts in obtaining orders against those who commit football-related offences away from grounds. More importantly, the extended relevant period will give courts the power to consider issuing banning orders against those convicted overseas of football-related offences, which often occur days before or after matches in international competition.
The Bill will strengthen existing powers and send a strong preventive message to discourage those who think that they are outside the banning order process. The process is further strengthened by the proposal to allow the courts to place conditions on the issue of a banning order and to require persons subject to an international football banning order to report to named police stations rather than anywhere they choose. Often, when they have reported, they travel overseas and attend the match even though the law has said that they should not. It is essential to stop that happening. The condition of submitting passports in advance of a requirement to report enforces our determination to ensure that such persons uphold the decision of the court. No hon. Member wants court decisions to be flagrantly abused. This is a way to stop that. It has been done before, and I think that it strikes the right balance between the civil liberties of those involved in violence and those of the rest of the country.
There are some 113 restriction orders and almost 450 exclusion orders. Before December 1997, there were nine restriction orders. The figure has substantially increased over the past year, following the Home Secretary's initiative to remind the police, prosecutors and courts of the powers available under existing legislation. However, as has been said, with about 4,000 arrests in England and Wales in all football competitions, the ratio of arrests to banning orders remains low. I have highlighted the difficulties of the court being able to issue orders because
of the time restrictions. There is a further restriction in that the court is required to be satisfied that to make such an order would help to prevent violence or disorder at a designated match. That is a high threshold for the court to consider. We fully support the proposal, which is set out in the Bill, that it should be replaced by the court being required to have reasonable grounds to believe that it would help to prevent violence or disorder at designated matches played outside England and Wales.
The low ratio of arrests to the issue of orders is also a reflection on the number of convictions that are achieved and, subsequently, the number of applications that are made for the issue of banning orders. As for the latter, the Bill sensibly proposes that the court be required to issue an order in all cases where a person is convicted of a football-related offence and there is sufficient evidence that to do so would help to prevent future violence or disorder at matches.
There is no doubt that the police are aware that certain individuals--a small but important number--are involved either in the planning of or participation in violent or hooligan activity in connection with football matches. Present legislation does not provide--it is not proposed in the Bill, although the hon. Member for West Chelmsford has mentioned that he is considering introducing an amendment in Committee--an ability to deal with known hooligans without conviction for a football-related offence.
As has been said by right hon. and hon. Members on both sides of the House, such a measure is not without its difficulties and may have implications in terms of civil liberties and of compromising intelligence sources. There are a number of issues that the Government wish to consider further, and it is clear that we shall have to work with the hon. Gentleman and take advice before we reach conclusions about whether we could support and wish to bring forward a further restriction.
I am pleased that the Bill makes provision for changes to the present law on indecent and racist chanting at football matches. Such offences are particularly nasty and objectionable. Racism of any description should not be tolerated in a civilised society. The Bill is an important step towards achieving that objective.
The actions of a small minority bring particular problems to football. The measures set out in the Bill are necessary to deal with the difficulties and to give a strong message that hooliganism will not be tolerated. We must place the problem in context. It is right, as some hon. Members have said, that more than 26 million people attended football cup and league matches last season in England and Wales, and that there were just over 4,000 arrests. However, the actions of a very small minority grab the headlines and tarnish our international reputation. The perception of violence and hooliganism impacts on how all of us are viewed as football supporters. That is crucial. We cannot have a situation where supporters of Manchester United or Arsenal go abroad to watch a match, as has happened recently, and find that they are all treated as if they are there only to cause trouble and to create violence. We cannot allow that to happen.
In my responsibility for European co-ordination in the Home Office, I am happy to talk to my Italian and French counterparts. However, we must be able to show that we
have done everything that we can to ensure that the small minority will not be allowed to travel to matches. Decent supporters want to be treated properly and as human beings. They do not wish it to be thought that all of them are out to create violence.
The Football Supporters Association supports what we are saying about ticket touting. It is keen that action should be taken. We do not want to see again the situation that happened at the last world cup--where thousands of fans were swindled out of their money by agencies being set up that do not have the tickets in the first place. This is not just a Home Office matter, but it is something that the Home Office, the Department of Trade and Industry and my hon. Friend the Minister for Sport should discuss. That does not come within the Bill, but I know that it is something that supporters want us to take up. I shall write to my hon. Friend the Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Mr. Pendry) on the number of arrests and convictions for ticket touting offences. I understand that there have been about 300.
We are a sporting nation and can be justifiably proud of the high quality of sport that our country attracts; for example, this year, the finals of the cricket world cup and the rugby world cup will be held here. I met the organisers of both tournaments recently, and was pleased with the work that they are doing to ensure the success of their respective competitions. That success will reflect on this nation and on our ability to host successfully major international tournaments.
We should not forget that England is the home of football and that our grounds are now the finest in the world. During Euro 96, we proved that we could organise and host successful, friendly and trouble-free matches where there was a great atmosphere. Football is thriving in England and attracts players from all over the world. At present, it is the place where top stars want to play and that supporters want to visit. It is of course the perfect setting for the world cup--football's greatest tournament. I pay tribute to the work being done by my hon. Friend the Minister for Sport and all those who are uniting around the attempt for a successful bid. However, even if we were not bidding for the world cup, and even if we do not win that bid, the legislation introduced by my hon. Friend, or rather the hon. Member for West Chelmsford--he is not quite my hon. Friend, although we have been talking to each other a great deal recently--is still necessary. The measure is not merely about our attempt to host the world cup--much as we should like it to be held in England--it is necessary because of the increase in travel to competitions in Europe.
We must continue to build on those partnerships that we have already developed between supporters, football authorities, the police and our European partners to make football matches safe and secure environments. I know that many hon. Members want to speak, but I do want to pay tribute to the Football Supporters Association and the work undertaken by its members during the world cup in France. The football embassies that they ran were of great use and support to fans. We want to work with the association to create a proper environment of support for our travelling fans. It is a partnership, and a working relationship with supporters is crucial.
As I mentioned, I have worked closely with the hon. Member for West Chelmsford and have made available to him the results of the public consultation exercise. I genuinely appreciate the level of co-operation that exists
and hope that it will continue. All Members of the House are united in our desire to combat football hooliganism, although there may be differences in the methods by which we want to achieve it. The Bill proposes a range of positive, balanced measures targeted at the football hooligan, but it is also aimed at maintaining and improving the safety and security of the decent law-abiding supporter. Football is enjoyed by millions in this country. The Government fully support the Bill and are aware that it acknowledges the concerns of the police, the football authorities and the supporters.
In my view and that of the Home Office, the provisions of the Bill are compatible with the European convention on human rights. The response of the National Federation of Football Supporters Clubs--an important organisation--stated:
"The proposals are positive and largely acceptable. To those who might argue that such legislation would unduly restrict the civil liberty of miscreants, we would respond that it is time the civil liberty of the well behaved supporter was better protected than it is at present."
Everybody in football must do more--and when I say everybody, I mean the players and the managers. Legislation can be only part of the solution; it cannot solve the whole problem. However, I recommend all hon. Members to give the Bill a Second Reading. I believe that it is a step forward and hope that it will receive a Second Reading.
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