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Ms Hewitt: I am terribly sorry, but the hon. Gentleman is wrong on that point. [Interruption.] Here are the figures from the House of Commons Library. The hon. Gentleman is wrong, just as he was wrong in the debate
when he made a point about the reduction inCO 2 emissions that will be achieved through Government policy. My hon. Friends the Members for Wimbledon (Mr. Casale) and for Colne Valley (Kali Mountford) rightly argued that the case for the fuel duty escalator is the same now as it was when the Conservative Government introduced it in 1993 and increased it in 1995.
My hon. Friend the Member for Workington (Mr. Campbell-Savours) spoke with great feeling. He has been entirely consistent, both in his support for the fuel duty escalator and in his request that commercial vehicles should be exempt. His consistency does him great credit and contrasts strikingly with the complete inconsistency of the Opposition. He asked what it would cost to exempt commercial vehicles from the fuel duty escalator. The answer is some £300 million to £400 million a year.
The Road Haulage Association suggested that commercial vehicles should have a reduction of at least 21p a litre in diesel duty, but it also suggested--Conservative Members have not mentioned this--that that reduction should be paid for by a 3p per litre increase in duty for every other driver. That is quite unacceptable.
I have to say to my hon. Friend the Member for Workington that it would be wrong to exempt hauliers from the fuel duty escalator, but to include in its scope emergency vehicles, doctors, nurses, rural motorists and anybody else with a diesel vehicle. It would be wrong to expect all other drivers to bear their share of reducing carbon dioxide and other polluting emissions, but not the road haulage industry.
My hon. Friend the Member for Workington, the hon. Member for Twickenham (Dr. Cable) and several others raised the issue of the Brit disc--the Euro vignette. Last week, my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport made it clear, as he had to the road haulage industry forum, that of course we shall examine that proposal carefully. However, I stress that, while there are many British vehicles driving on continental roads, there are very few European vehicles driving on British road. Indeed, less than 1 per cent. of lorry miles in this country are done by foreign vehicles, according to the latest figures available. That suggests two things: first, that the road haulage industry in this country is, as the Government have maintained, remarkably competitive; and, secondly, that the revenue from a Brit disc would be extremely small. It might even be too small to justify the administrative costs involved in collecting it. None the less, we shall look at that suggestion seriously, as we shall look at all the other suggestions made to us in the forum.
My hon. Friend the Member for Workington and other hon. Members also raised the issue of the need to equalise rates of duty within the single market. I shall come to that point in a moment in relation to Northern Ireland. We are certainly arguing, within the European Union, for higher minimum rates of fuel duty across the European Union. There is no doubt whatever that higher minimum rates would assist in removing distortions that have arisen within the single market. However, it is not up to the United Kingdom to dictate to other member states how they should achieve their Kyoto targets and thus contribute to solving the problem of global warming.
The hon. Members for South Down (Mr. McGrady) and for East Antrim (Mr. Beggs) both raised the serious problem of the smuggling of fuel across the border into Northern Ireland and the problem of quite legal cross-border shopping. As the hon. Member for East Antrim generously acknowledged, Customs and Excise has cracked down with considerable force on the problem of smuggling. Since the beginning of last year it has seized 63 vehicles and some half a million litres of fuel, and it has had admissions from those drivers that they have smuggled almost a further 25 million litres. Vigorous law enforcement action is being taken and we have strengthened the resources available to Customs and Excise to ensure that they can take that action.
Mr. Campbell-Savours:
Will my hon. Friend explain the justification for the escalator once we have met the Kyoto targets?
Ms Hewitt:
My hon. Friend will be aware that we have not only our internationally binding commitment to the Kyoto targets, but our own domestic commitment, from the last manifesto, to seek a further reduction in carbon dioxide emissions. I also refer my hon. Friend to the real and growing problem of poor local air quality. Important though greenhouse gases are, they are not the only pollution problem involved.
The hon. Member for South Down referred to the system used across the border between Germany and the Netherlands. The differential in duty rates is compensated for, but that is not a tax differential. It is a subsidy given by the Dutch Government to businesses operating filling stations near the border. I understand that the European Commission is looking closely at the Dutch subsidy scheme on state aid grounds, but I shall certainly pass on that point to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. As it is a subsidy and not a tax differential, it is a matter for her rather than for me.
Mr. Clifton-Brown:
I am grateful to the Economic Secretary for giving way to me a second time. Can she tell me--if she cannot will she write to me--her Department's best estimate of how many UK jobs will be lost as a result of the Budget increase in the fuel escalator?
Ms Hewitt:
The estimates that have been offered by Conservative Members, which I think were taken from some of the road haulage groups, are completely absurd. The associations concerned have not been willing to share with us the basis of their estimates. The Conservative Government were responsible for 5,000 job losses in this industry.
Mr. Brady:
Will the hon. Lady give way?
Ms Hewitt:
Let me finish this answer. As has been acknowledged--
Ms Hewitt:
Let me finish this answer. As has been acknowledged by the industry, there are real problems of overcapacity. As my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport said last week, no Government can possibly give an assurance that there will never be job losses,
Ms Hewitt:
I shall not give way again, because I want to deal with the speech made by the hon. Member for Twickenham on behalf of the Liberal Democratic party. It is extremely interesting that his party, which claims to support environmental taxation, wills the ends of environmental taxation but is not willing to support the means. It has bottled out once again.
What was interesting about the hon. Gentleman's speech was that he rightly stressed the need for environmental taxation so that we internalise the true costs of road transport and car usage into the price of petrol and the price of car usage. He is right about that. Conservative Members, who used to understand some of the basic principles of market economics, used to make the case for environmental taxation, but they seem to have given up on that as they have given up on so much.
The hon. Member for Twickenham and many of my hon. Friends referred to the costs of pollution that are imposed by the road haulage industry and by motorists generally. [Interruption.]
The Second Deputy Chairman:
Order. Conversations are breaking out throughout the Chamber. Hon. Members must listen to the Minister. [Interruption.] Order. Hon. Members must listen to the Minister who is responding to the debate.
Ms Hewitt:
Thank you, Mr. Lord.
I want to refer briefly to the costs of pollution from the road haulage industry and motorists generally in relation to local air quality. Twenty four per cent.--almost a quarter--of the particulates that are partly causing the problem of pollution and 47 per cent. of the pollution from nitrogen oxide come from the road haulage industry. We have reliable estimates that some 8,000 people die prematurely every year as a result of particulates pollution alone. My hon. Friend the Member for Colne Valley rightly referred to the growing problem of asthma among children, to which I would add the growing problem not only of premature deaths but of ill health among elderly people suffering from chest infections.
Other Labour Members made extremely important points. For instance, my hon. Friend the Member for Halton (Mr. Twigg) pointed out, quite rightly, that no one could trust the Conservatives on this issue.
Neither we nor the voters will allow the Conservatives to forget their past. They may wish to tear up what they did in the last Government--and, in other respects, that does not surprise me. They may wish to tear up the green manifesto on which they fought the last election. We--in this clause, and in this Bill--are delivering on our commitments to balance the needs of motorists with the needs of the environment, and to deliver a cut in the pollution that is coming from road transport and motorists.
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