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Mr. Drew: Given my hon. Friend's previous portfolio, can he clarify the Government's position on the ban? Have they carried out an independent scientific investigation into the safety of hormones in beef?
Mr. Battle: The UK was one of the few countries that pressed for labelling to give consumers an option--that would make matters much clearer. I shall respond in detail to my hon. Friend's point later in my speech.
We understand from Washington that there will be an announcement--perhaps tomorrow--formally expressing disappointment that the EU has not complied with the WTO requirement to lift the ban, and stating an intention to exercise the right to retaliate under the WTO. The US will need to apply to the WTO in Geneva for authorisation to retaliate, but it is not clear exactly when it will do so. Canada is likely to take similar action--that relates to a point made earlier by my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (Mr. Martlew). The EU will then seek arbitration on the amount of retaliation due, which will delay authorisation until mid-July and may well reduce the overall amount. We shall not see the detailed list of retaliation for about10 days, but the British position is widely recognised in the United States, as is the fact that we have played a helpful role in the matter. We hope that further negotiations can be undertaken to de-escalate the current problem.
Mr. Chidgey:
The Minister has mentioned twice that negotiations are being pursued on retaliation. I press him to tell the House whether the Government's view is that we should seek a solution based on compensation rather than one based on retaliation.
Mr. Battle:
That is precisely the position that Sir Leon Brittan took at the Commission; he is negotiating on that basis and I hope that that will prove to be a helpful step in the interim.
The WTO rules require that trade measures put in place to protect human, animal and plant health must have a scientific basis. That brings me to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud (Mr. Drew). Governments can and do apply restrictions to protect their consumers, but they must be in line with international standards or justified by a risk assessment when they are more stringent than international standards. Obviously, if those rules were not in place, countries could simply impose restrictions--ostensibly on the grounds of consumer protection--but without any scientific back-up whatever. In reality, they would simply be protecting their own interests.
Miss Anne McIntosh (Vale of York):
Will the Minister tell the House on what basis British beef was rejected from the US in the early 1980s, before the BSE crisis?
Mr. Battle:
I am tempted to say that if I were allowed another half hour to speak, I would go through the history of the previous Conservative Administration on BSE, but I think that I should be ruled out of order. I gently point out to the hon. Lady that, when we came into Government, I was not allowed to go through all the details--other than what was in the press and in Hansard--of what was done by the previous Administration. However, I should love to spend my life in the Library digging through those murky papers to find out what happened. To the hon. Lady, I say simply that in the case of beef hormones, as in other cases, we must recognise the importance of sticking to scientific principles, as the hon. Member for Eastleigh pointed out.
Protection of the consumer, and the health and safety of people and the environment are of paramount concern to the Government--they are our starting point. We have always opposed the EU ban on beef hormones on the grounds that it is not justified by scientific analysis, but if genuinely fresh scientific evidence--not simply recycling of previous claims--were to emerge, we would reconsider the case for the ban. As the EU continues to carry out a new series of risk assessments, we should continue to engage in serious dialogue with the United States and Canada. We are encouraging the US to discuss compensation, as an alternative to retaliation, and labelling options, in which we led the way.
Mr. Gray:
On the question of scientific evidence on the safety of hormones, how can Minister argue that no precautionary principle is in play and that we must allow the stuff because it appears to be all right, when the Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food has banned beef on the bone, which has been shown to pose a one in 2 billion risk of any form of infection? Beef hormones are a heck of a lot more dangerous than beef on the bone.
Mr. Battle:
The hon. Gentleman says that, but he should check the evidence. Let me read to him the US Government's reaction to recent developments, in which they challenge the evidence that has emerged in the past few days on the ground that it is merely a recycling of previous claims. It states:
Mr. Gray:
American scientists would say that, wouldn't they? How can the Minister so lightly dismiss the many scientists who say that there is no possible link between beef on the bone and new-variant CJD? How can the Government ban beef on the bone and simultaneously permit the import of hormone-treated beef? That is the contrast I want the Minister to address.
Mr. Battle:
The hon. Gentleman implies that, because they are American, the scientists must be biased and willing to jeopardise their professional and scientific integrity, but I shall not respond in kind. I know that, when he winds up the debate, my hon. Friend the Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food will respond in detail on the question of beef on the bone.
Our primary duty in respect of GMOs is to protect people and the environment, which is why, at EU and national level, we have a comprehensive framework in place to regulate and advise on biotechnology and to assess new products rigorously before they are approved for use. No product is allowed on to the market unless and until it goes through safety assessments. Those stringent assessments afford an extremely high level of consumer protection, so it would not be right for the UK or the EU to impose a unilateral ban on products that pass through those processes. However, if fresh scientific evidence on the safety of any GM product were to come to light, of course we would consider whether a ban was justified.
Dr. Peter Brand (Isle of Wight):
I am interested in the Minister's reiteration of the need for fresh scientific evidence. We have many committees of scientists reviewing the scientific evidence available, but will he or his colleague, the Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, tell the House what work we are initiating to produce fresh evidence? So far, most of the evidence comes from manufacturers of somatotropins, who clearly have an interest in maintaining the existing verdict in favour of their product.
Mr. Battle:
It is not fair to say that all or even most of the scientific evidence comes from the companies. For some time, I have had the privilege of being responsible for science, which covers work on the environment and work within the EU such as the framework programme, whereby scientists in universities and institutions
My reason for using the word "fresh" is that, often, reports of a few comments or summaries by a researcher appear somewhat prematurely, before peer review and before proper publication in the usual form of authorised scientific papers. That prematurely delivered information is often recycled information which has been gleaned from other people's papers and re-presented--a practice which, in the days when I did research, would not have been accepted as research, because it involved no originality. We are looking for originality--that is what I mean by "fresh". We encourage scientists to explore developments in biotechnology and ensure that they are safe. My hon. Friend the Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food can spell out, in detail, the work that we have initiated. In addition, the House should recognise that, through the science budget, we fund some of that work.
"From what our scientists have seen of DGXXIV's summary report so far, the summary does not have any new scientific data on which to base its claims that the hormones in question may be harmful. In fact, the data cited in the summary seems to be the same as that already reviewed by numerous scientists, including the Joint Experts Committee on Food Additives (JECS), two previous groups of scientists commissioned by the EU and five scientific experts who provided their advice to the WTO beef hormones panels."
We should occasionally remember that there are damn good scientists in the United States of America and that we cannot accuse the US of scientific indifference. There are going to be arguments about the science, so we have to do our best to obtain independent evidence. Notwithstanding all that, we are one of the few countries calling for labelling. Supermarkets are pulling GMOs and other products off their shelves in response to consumer pressure, rather than to detailed scientific evidence; therefore, our argument is that, if products containing beef hormones were labelled, consumers would be able make their own judgment.
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