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2.45 pm
Mr. Tom Clarke (Coatbridge and Chryston): I support amendment No. 12. I fear that, for the first time in 16 years in this Parliament, I may not be in a position to support the Government if, as I see it, they remain intransigent on this matter. It will be the first time that I have not supported my party in all my time here, and I say that of the party I love.
Many of my remarks will echo those of my hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood (Mr. Berry) and the all-party disablement group, including Lord Ashley, who leads it, Alf Morris, Brian Rix and many others. I thank them for the help they have given me in seeking to make some sense of this debate and the various views expressed in it. I also thank my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Security, who has been unfailingly courteous to me. I do not join those of my colleagues who think that, in the society in which we live and with the pluralism that we enjoy, it is wrong of a member of the Government or someone from the Whips Office to give us their views. Our job is to win the debate and get this Government of ours on the right lines.
Like me, many of my colleagues have been pleased to be part of a Government who, in two short years, have done so much to benefit the lives of millions of our disabled fellow citizens, honouring the commitment I gave on behalf of the shadow Cabinet at the party conference before the last election.
Of course, I warmly support the new deal for disabled people and the disabled persons tax credit. I welcome what my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has been able to do for children and those under 25. However, it is against that backdrop that I argue for this amendment, largely because I proudly endorse the Government's initiatives, particularly on disability and employment.
There is no difference between my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and me when he argues that replacing benefits with paid work is common sense for any person, disabled or not. It restores dignity and self-esteem. In the autumn of 1998 the then Secretary of State for Social Security and the all-party disablement group, together, said:
I have been surprised that it is proposed in the future to remove the benefit entitlement of tens of thousands of people who are unable to work. More in sorrow than in anger, I say that the Government have failed to recognise in clause 53 that not all disabled people are able to work. Indeed--according figures recently published by the Government, not me--170,000 people will suffer from the provisions. They will be excluded from incapacity benefit, but will not be provided with a safety net. It cannot be right to exclude those people from benefit if we are genuinely pursuing social justice. It cannot be right to exclude them if our test really is to respond to the needs of the many, not the few.
What is the purpose of clause 53? What will it accomplish? If it is being suggested that, now or in the future, people on incapacity benefit are not sick or disabled, the way of dealing with the problem is by using the entitlement test. Very clearly, the issue should be one of whether those people are able to pass the gateway- to-benefit test, rather than--as many people believe the Bill would do--moving the goal posts without changing the eligibility criteria.
Given the reforms of the all-work test, on which I have pressed my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State before--and which we must assume go a long way towards meeting the Government's objectives; otherwise, why did we make them?--I fail to see why it is necessary to go even further by abolishing entitlement to incapacity benefit for so many people. It is especially difficult to understand why abolition is necessary when we hear that the Bill is not cuts driven.
The evidence from my own surgeries--like that, I suspect, from the surgeries of hon. Members on both sides of the House--tells me that it is not easy to get incapacity benefit. The tests are very stringent and, for many people, require great effort. The reforms of 1995--as recently as that--made the all-work test even more rigid. Extravagant claims of huge abuses--of many disabled people lying idle and receiving benefit--are quite simply wrong.
Although I want disabled people to find work, I fail to understand how denying benefits to those who have not made contributions in the past two years, as they have not able to work in those years, will help to achieve that objective. In fact, denying benefit to those disabled people could have the perverse effect of deterring them from seeking work. Many people believe that, if they return to work but again fall ill, they may not be able to receive benefit. For many people, that is a disincentive to find work--which is the complete opposite of all that we want to achieve.
I do not fall for the argument that everyone who is unemployed does not want a job. The argument does not hold true of the people who come to my constituency surgeries, and does not accord with the evidence and observations of which I am told weekly by other hon. Members. I cannot believe, and will not accept, that the argument is true in the cases of people who have to be helped into my surgeries--and who tell me that, after the shortest medical tests, they are being cut off completely from benefit. That is wrong and must be corrected.
Clause 53 proposes taking money from disabled people who cannot work, and giving it to those who can. Therefore, effectively, those who are unable to work will be subsidising those who can. Where is the fairness in that? It is fine that those who are currently receiving incapacity benefit will not be made any worse off by the provisions, but protecting the benefits of today's disabled people cannot justify penalising tomorrow's disabled people. Quite simply, it would be wrong to do that.
Some argue that certain people currently receiving incapacity benefit should not be doing so. The argument has been made by my hon. and dear Friend the Member for High Peak (Mr. Levitt), whom I helped in the previous two general elections. I offer to help him in the next election--although, after this speech, the offer may not be quite so welcome. I also tell him that the Bill will not address the issue of people wrongly receiving incapacity benefit. They will continue to receive the benefit, but it will be denied to those who should qualify for it after passing the most rigid tests ever created. There is absolutely no justification for denying those people benefit.
As the consultation document said, many people have access to occupational and personal pensions--but those are their nest eggs, not luxuries. Many of them pay a high proportion of a relatively low income into a private pension scheme. They are likely to feel deeply betrayed when they discover that--yet again, as under the previous Government--they are being penalised for their action by a reduction in incapacity benefit.
If people are receiving benefit that they do not need, the problem will have to be tackled--I accept that--but we must do so in a manner that does not undermine those who are on low incomes. We cannot redress the perception that many wealthy people are receiving benefit--although, as it happens, they made their contributions over the years--by seeking to take funds from those who are in lower-income brackets.
I am glad that--according to the lunchtime news bulletins--my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Security will be giving us further information on that matter. It would not have been acceptable if people receiving as little as £50 a week were effectively to be taxed at a rate of 50 per cent. It would not be possible for me to defend taking from those people 50p out of each pound. That was not the policy that I offered in the three years when I had the privilege of being the shadow Cabinet spokesperson on disability.
We understand the Government's concern about the rising costs of welfare spending. However, we shall not reduce those costs if--because of the provisions of clause 54, which may adversely affect their benefits entitlement, making them feel cheated--people feel less inclined to invest in a pension for their latter years.
Again more in sorrow than in anger, I say that it would be a tragedy if the Government, by not accepting amendment No. 12, were to tarnish what has so far been an excellent record of protecting disabled people's interests. I am sincerely convinced that the clauses would lead to hardship for many of our constituents who will become disabled.
Mrs. Angela Browning (Tiverton and Honiton):
I shall speak briefly to amendment No. 86. The debate so far has focused primarily on the means-testing of incapacity benefit and the changes to it. Amendment No. 86 would delete clauses 55 and 56. Clause 55 deals with incapacity in youth and clause 56 contains the Government's proposal to abolish severe disablement allowance.
The right hon. Member for Coatbridge and Chryston (Mr. Clarke) rightly drew attention to the fact that there are many people who will never work, however much we may wish to make available to them the facilities of supported employment. Many young people currently qualify for SDA on the ground that they are born with a disability. The Government have made the concession of broadening the contributions rule to exempt those up to the age of 25, rather than their original proposal of 19.
We all recognise that for someone with a lifelong severe disability, education or training can go on well into their 20s. Even after that, the chances of paid employment may be limited or may require a protracted process. They may be required to do voluntary work or get into the world of work through the therapeutics earning rule to begin with. I am concerned that those young people who currently qualify for severe disablement allowance on the ground of their disability once they have come through the education system will now come within the catch-all of the new rules for incapacity benefit.
The hon. Member for High Peak (Mr. Levitt) said that incapacity benefit was not necessarily regarded as a disability benefit, but as a benefit that gave substitution for income. I hope that I have not misrepresented him. Those currently qualifying for severe disablement allowance who have never worked and who realistically will never hold down full-time or well-paid part-time employment do not have to fulfil the criteria for an income replacement benefit; they get SDA on a medical assessment of the severity of their disability. That is to change and they are to come within the remit of the incapacity benefit rules. I ask the Government to look again at that.
"future savings would come from helping disabled people to get jobs rather than reducing benefit entitlement."
That commitment is the inspiration behind amendment No. 12.
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