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Mr. Jonathan Shaw (Chatham and Aylesford): I take up the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Mr. Browne). If we were able to widen the new clause, would that not act as a deterrent for the appalling people who weld together cars that have been involved in accidents? A friend of mine purchased such a vehicle. She did not have a great deal of expertise and, six months later, she found that the vehicle was a death trap. It was extremely worrying because my friend was a foster parent and was transporting children in her care.
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Michael Lord): Order. Perhaps the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Mr. Miller) should take his own advice of a few minutes ago.
Mr. Miller: I cannot remember what that was, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
My hon. Friend the Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Mr. Shaw) raises a point that is incorporated in the new clause. I am saying that, with the technology that is now available to the Government, proper cross-referencing of information relating to vehicles and
drivers--information that is sitting in court rooms throughout the country, in the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency and in MOT records--will help us, first, and most importantly, to understand whether there is any substance in the anecdotal information that suggests that there is a link between drivers who persistently abuse the law and unroadworthy vehicles. Secondly, it will provide the Government with an opportunity to examine the information and to determine the best way forward.
Mr. Browne:
Before my hon. Friend moves off cost implications, and the effect of his new clause and the rest of this brief Bill, I point out that one of the advantages of the database that would be created would be that the police, through the police national computer, could access relevant information instantaneously at accidents. He may be undermining his new clause to some degree in that respect. The information ought to be collated through the police, without the involvement of magistrates or anyone else.
Mr. Miller:
The Bill permits the collection of some information through the police national computer, but, for the sake of brevity, I shall not rustle through my papers to find the relevant clause. The police could be empowered for the purposes of existing road traffic legislation to utilise information collected under the Bill, but, in its present form, it does not authorise the Secretary of State to use that information for purposes of inquiry.
I want to ensure that information flows both ways between those who collect MOT data and those who are responsible for overseeing the provisions of legislation dealing with death and serious injury on the road. If we achieve that modest objective, we shall have taken one step along the road of dealing with some of the issues on which I, a number of hon. Members on both sides of the House and organisations such as Brake and RoadPeace have been campaigning for a long time. That is not a perfect solution, but it is part of a complex solution.
Dr. George Turner (North-West Norfolk):
I am not clear about whether the information to be exchanged would include information about failure of the MOT test. Two classes of people do not have MOT certificates for perhaps a week or more: some people may simply have been careless or forgetful, but the worst incidents involve people who deliberately use their vehicle even though it has failed an MOT. It is important that knowledge of failure should be available, but I am not clear about whether that would be included in the information to which my hon. Friend is referring.
Mr. Miller:
I think that the correct answer to my hon. Friend is that such examples would fall outside the scope of the new clause. I am not entirely certain of what happens to records of failures collected by MOT testing stations, and perhaps my hon. Friend the Minister may be able to deal with that issue when she responds. The individual is given a copy of the certificate, but I do not know what happens subsequently to the original information about the vehicle.
With today's technology, it would certainly be possible to include on a database information about a vehicle that failed the MOT test today, and then passed and gained a certificate a week later after having the appropriate work
carried out. I think that such a provision comes within the scope of the Bill, but it may not fall specifically within the scope of the new clause.
Mr. Andrew Dismore (Hendon):
Perhaps my hon. Friend and I can help each other on that point. If a registration number is not on the computer, the police know that the vehicle has no MOT and must therefore be an MOT failure by definition. That is the short-circuit way round the problem identified by my hon. Friend the Member for North-West Norfolk (Dr. Turner).
Mr. Miller:
If the police stop a vehicle today because they suspect the driver of committing a road traffic offence or, specifically in the context of the new clause, of being involved in a death or the causing of serious injury, I and 99 per cent. of the public would expect them to have the ability to check not only whether the driver's licence is in order, using the police national computer, but whether the vehicle's paperwork is in order. That resource could be made available to the police, beneficially and within the scope of the Bill, and would be a massive advantage.
It could be argued that civil liberties would be breached, but I shall take that argument head on: the real breach of civil liberties is the death and maiming of people on our roads every year. In respect of every issue on which the Government introduce strengthened computerised databases, we must be mindful of privacy and ensure that proper data protection and privacy legislation is developed to reinforce such changes. At the same time, we must be prepared to tackle that argument absolutely head on and say that the real civil liberties issue is the injuring of people on the roads.
Dr. George Turner:
Will my hon. Friend clarify the meaning of the words "any inquiry" in his new clause? I am not sure whether they would have legal definition, or whether I or a member of the public could decide to inquire into something. I should have thought that he would want to be restrictive and would have used those words in a more technical sense. Can he explain to the House whether his new clause would restrict those who are entitled to inquire and to get that information?
Mr. Miller:
I do not claim to be an expert parliamentary draftsman, but the provision, through its use of the word "any", was intended to be broad brush. As I have said, I would include magistrates courts, coroners courts and the police. There is even a legitimate argument for such information to be made available to insurance companies, because it would be a material fact in respect of whether a policy was valid. We will have to look at that issue as time goes on. I intended the wording to affect not members of the public or the press, but any public authority legitimately engaged in an inquiry relating to death or serious injury. However, I can see arguments for extending it beyond that.
This is a modest new clause, the spirit of which I hope my hon. Friend the Minister will accept. I appreciate that she may have difficulty with the precise wording, because we have not had the opportunity to discuss it, but the intention is as I have described. I hope that, as part of the House's determination to help to reduce the number of deaths and serious injuries on the roads, the Government will consider incorporating at least the spirit of the new clause into the Bill.
10 am
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Environment, Transport and the Regions (Ms Glenda Jackson):
May I begin by thanking my hon. Friend the Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Mr. Miller) for the warm tribute that he paid to our noble Friend Lord Whitty for his dedication to all the road safety issues that my hon. Friend mentioned, such as ensuring better driver training and better road design. As he knows, the Government are engaged in a review of speed, and we have already given a clear estimate of targets for the reduction of deaths and injuries. This country's record is extremely good, but that is no argument for complacency. As the whole House knows, my hon. Friend is a patron of RoadPeace and is assiduous in arguing from the perspective of those who are grievously hurt by the loss of members of their families as a result of pointless and often preventable road accidents.
As I am sure my hon. Friend is also aware, the Government have reduced the necessity for local authorities to apply to the Secretary of State before introducing 20 mph zones or limits on local roads. I assure my hon. Friend, and all members of RoadPeace and other organisations dedicated to reducing deaths and injuries on the roads, that the Government are committed to that aim. As my hon. Friend said, if the number of deaths on our roads occurred as a result of aeroplanes falling from the sky, the reaction would be vociferous. We are concerned to ensure that the number of deaths on the roads is not considered an issue about which nothing can or should be done. We are committed to reducing the number of deaths and injuries on the roads.
I presume that the new clause is intended to serve two purposes. First, it would require the Secretary of State to authorise the use of information in the database of MOT records for the purposes of any inquiry into a road traffic accident. Secondly, it would require the Secretary of State to maintain a record of all such incidents where the vehicle involved did not have a valid test certificate at the time of the accident.
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