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Mr. Eric Forth (Bromley and Chislehurst): Could not the Leader of the House please squeeze in a brief debate
in the week following the recess on a subject that should be dear to the Prime Minister, but apparently is not? Will she ensure that the Prime Minister is present for a debate on the difference between pupil:teacher ratios and average secondary and primary class sizes, because it is perfectly obvious from what the right hon. Gentleman said earlier that he does not have a clue about any of these things and--no doubt inadvertently and through ignorance--grossly misled the House? May we have a brief debate in the presence of the Prime Minister, so that he can learn about these things before he talks rubbish in the House of Commons?
Mrs. Beckett: I fear that I cannot undertake to provide what will be a completely unnecessary debate on that subject. From memory--because I do not have the figures with me--the Prime Minister was asked about average class sizes, and the answer that he gave was completely correct. I know that it does not suit Opposition Members.
Mr. Patrick McLoughlin (West Derbyshire): As the health debate is not to be held on Wednesday, will the Leader of the House arrange for the Health Secretary to make a statement to the House, so that he may explain why waiting lists for Southern Derbyshire Acute Hospitals NHS trust have increased, for referrals from GPs to consultants, from more than 1,500 in March 1977 to more than 3,200 in March 1999? People are obliged to wait a considerable time even to see a GP in southern Derbyshire. I am sure that such a statement will interest the right hon. Lady, too.
Mrs. Beckett: No. I fear I cannot undertake to press my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health to make a statement about the affairs of one part of the country, important though it may be.
Miss Anne McIntosh (Vale of York): I wonder whether the Leader of the House could make time on Wednesday 9 June to discuss the plight of junior hospital doctors and explain to my constituents why that one category is deemed to be exempt from the safety provisions of the working time directive, which are meant to apply to every other profession.
Mrs. Beckett: Considering that the Conservative party opposes the working time directive root and branch, it is
extraordinary that the hon. Lady has asked that question. I simply point out to her that the Government are determined to reduce the working hours of junior hospital doctors, have done so and will continue to do so.
Mr. Douglas Hogg (Sleaford and North Hykeham): The right hon. Lady is moving the business for Wednesday 9 June. Will she consider holding a debate on the number and the cost of Scottish Ministers? Has she read the Hansard record of Scottish questions yesterday? If she has, she will have noticed that, in relation to all nine questions reached, Scottish Ministers replying said that, as from 1 July, the matter would be a matter for the devolved Parliament in Scotland, not for them. That being so, what have Scottish Ministers got to do? Should not the House have the opportunity to consider whether the number and the cost of Scottish Ministers should be substantially reduced?
Mrs. Beckett: No; I am not prepared to find time for a debate on that subject. I thought that my right hon. Friend the new Secretary of State for Scotland yesterday dealt admirably with that point and those Members who made that point.
Mr. Edward Garnier (Harborough): The Leader of the House has announced that the remaining stages of the Health Bill will now be dealt with on Monday 14 June. Will the Health Bill be allowed more than one day, or will there be one day for Report and Third Reading? Can the right hon. Lady tell me--I have an interest in the subject, as Opposition spokesman on the Access to Justice Bill--what effect that will have on the likely date for Report and Third Reading of the Access to Justice Bill? A rumour was generated in the House yesterday that the Access to Justice Bill Report stage taken would be in the week beginning 14 June. I wonder whether she has any information about that which she would care to share with the House and the wider public.
Mrs. Beckett: I fear I am not in a position to help the hon. and learned Gentleman with that information. The expectation is that a day will be provided for the remaining stages of the Health Bill, as was the original arrangement; it is simply that it is a different day. I am afraid that, at the moment, I cannot enlighten the hon. and learned Gentleman about the Access to Justice Bill. If I am able to do so, I will do so.
Point of Order
4.49 pm
Mr. Douglas Hogg (Sleaford and North Hykeham): On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I am grateful to you for allowing me to raise a point of order with reference to the question that I asked at Northern Ireland questions. I shall not strain your patience by reminding the House of precisely what I said, but the question was directed to Government policy--whether immunity from prosecution should be given. It had absolutely nothing to do with the role of the paratroopers, with the evidence to be called, or with the question to be determined by those presiding over the inquiry. My understanding, culled from page 383 of the latest edition of "Erskine May", was that the 1972 resolution of the House permitted Members to raise questions relating to the conduct of Ministers, even if there was a tangential reference to some judicial inquiry in progress.
You may not wish to give a ruling today, Madam Speaker, but perhaps at some stage you will be in a position to give a little more guidance so that, I, at least, do not inadvertently transgress and try your patience.
Madam Speaker:
I shall respond immediately to the right hon. and learned Gentleman, and remind him, as I am sure he is aware, that the purpose of the sub judice rule is to avoid any element of interference by the House in the work of the courts and the rights of those who are answering charges made against them.
Reference in debate to the status of witnesses appearing before an inquiry under the Tribunals and Inquiries Act 1992 may, even if the right hon. and learned Gentleman's interests are elsewhere, have implications for the conduct of that inquiry and its outcome. I am sure that he will agree that that would be wrong.
I understand that the right hon. and learned Gentleman is interested in, and has read, a debate in another place, but let me tell him, and the rest of the House, that the sub
judice rule in the other place is not, I understand, exactly the same as that which governs proceedings in this House. In any case, I believe that their lordships were at that time considering legislation, when in both Houses the sub judice rule does not apply.
Sir Peter Emery (East Devon):
Further to that point of order, Madam Speaker. I apologise for not having given you notice of my intention, but the matter arose during Question Time, and it became impossible for me to give you notice. You know, as I do, what a minefield the sub judice rule is in the House, and its implications for the way in which the occupant of the Chair has to rule. I understand that only too well.
However, what I was trying to do, which was ruled out of order because of the sub judice rule, was to ask the Minister a question about his actions in defending those who might be called to give evidence. I was not attempting to interfere with the court or the judge; I was attempting to assist the court to ensure that there was a greater chance that evidence could be given freely by those called to give it, in that their anonymity would be protected.
I was emphasising the judgment that a Minister could make before the actual operation of the court and the sub judice rule. I would have hoped that that would have met the application of the rules in "Erskine May".
Madam Speaker:
I quite understand the right hon. Gentleman's argument; I was very concerned while he was putting his question. May I repeat that even if the right hon. Gentleman's interests are elsewhere, as he genuinely tried to explain to the House that they were, what he wanted to say could still have had implications for that inquiry and its outcome, and that would be wrong. I have gone carefully into the sub judice rule, and I seek to protect the House, as I also seek to protect witnesses and courts elsewhere.
Mr. Gareth R. Thomas (Harrow, West):
I beg to move,
As more than two thirds of the United Kingdom's carbon dioxide emissions come from non-transport energy production, sustainable energy has a key role to play in reducing the threat of climate change. Sustainable energy is the proof that economics and the environment mix, and that markets can achieve environmental solutions while delivering crucial economic and social benefits too. An agency would champion the drive to increase our renewable energy capacity, promote energy efficiency and facilitate CHP development in order to meet Government targets and build on the excellent renewables review, the positive work of the Energy Savings Trust and the coming climate change levy.
The agency would be a non-departmental public body, accountable to Government and the House, co-ordinating funding, research and business advice, acting as a resource point for other Government Departments and statutory bodies, able to argue for sustainable energy options and providing a focal point for the development of our domestic sustainable energy industry.
Sustainable energy agencies are not new. The Green Alliance, whose report provided some of the background to the Bill, highlighted the sustainable energy development authority, or SEDA, in New South Wales, and Novem, the Netherlands agency for energy and the environment.
SEDA has promoted the commercialisation and increased use of sustainable energy technologies. Novem's role has been to bring together all the stakeholders involved in energy efficiency to stimulate energy efficiency techniques and technologies. It has been a key factor in the Netherlands' success in doubling its long-term energy efficiency rate. SEDA's green power accreditation scheme and energy smart business programme have locked in 180 new partners and the investment of more than 31 million Australian dollars in energy efficiency, and have stimulated rapid growth in the Australian solar and wind energy industries.
We, however, are a long way from making a reality of our sustainable energy potential. The United Kingdom generates just 2 per cent. of its energy from renewable sources. To reach our target of 10 per cent. of electricity from renewables by 2010, about 500 MW of new capacity would need to be brought on-line every year for the next decade. On the trends of the past five years, that would be challenging, to put it mildly.
Although the NFFO--non-fossil fuel obligation--process has been extremely successful in driving down the costs of renewable energy, the actual level of installed capacity has been disappointing.
One of the major obstacles to promoting renewables, energy efficiency and CHP is the confusing institutional set-up for sustainable energy. The Green Alliance charted 15 different Government-funded institutions or initiatives, many of them doing an excellent job within their specific remit, ranging from Government Departments, quangos and research agencies through to private sector companies.
A key reason for such fragmentation is that the institutions have developed on an ad hoc basis in response to new policy goals over time. There is no single cohesive body offering a clear message which brings together government, academics and industry to co-ordinate the delivery of energy efficiency, renewables and CHP policy. Some, but not all, of the technologies have their own separate trade associations. A sustainable energy agency would help to deliver joined-up thinking and partnership, working across Whitehall and with other players to develop a strong sustainable energy industry.
There is huge potential in Britain. The energy technology support unit--ETSU--estimated that the cost-effective energy efficiency potential equalled 11 per cent. of projected energy demand in 2010. In offshore wind alone, Britain has enough potential to support our electricity needs three times over.
For industry to have the confidence to invest in renewable capacity in the UK, it must have confidence in the stability of local conditions, the regulatory position must improve, and industry must have confidence in the organisations with which it deals. A sustainable energy agency would help to lock in that stability and expertise to grow our domestic sustainable energy industry.
As part of its work programme, the agency would be well placed to co-ordinate a strong export programme to increase Britain's share of world markets, which for wind and solar now approach £1 billion a year each. Both markets are set to double over the next three years--a rate of growth comparable to sales of mobile phones and internet services. Mark Moody Stuart, chairman of the British arm of Shell, stated in his annual report to shareholders last year:
We in Britain lead the world in a number of renewable technologies--for example, in wave power and in certain forms of biomass. A sustainable energy agency would be ideally positioned to facilitate, in partnership with Departments and perhaps using climate challengefund resources, powerful programmes to exploit our renewables potential in world markets.
There are, too, many sustainable energy options that are local, small-scale and supported, or perhaps even part-owned, by local communities. A sustainable energy
agency would not only be able to promote the interests of the larger renewables and CHP players, but could help to facilitate easier access to the grid for smaller renewables providers.
In May 1997, Greenpeace, together with the Peabody Trust, installed 30 solar panels on three low-income homes in Silvertown in London. Each home was projected to save a third off its electricity bill--about £60 a year. London Electricity offered the tenants less than 3p per kilowatt hour for the electricity they exported to the grid while charging them 8p per kilowatt hour when they needed electricity from the grid. That, together with the insistence that new meters be installed to measure the exported electricity, would have brought about the daft scenario of the tenants owing money to the LEB for the privilege of exporting electricity to its grid.
Net or reversible metering solutions could be promoted by a sustainable energy agency to help to resolve that type of market disincentive. Such an agency could also develop programmes to help to educate young people about sustainable energy and to help City investors to understand the industry. It could act as a source of advice for those, such as Grimsdyke first and middle school in my constituency, who are applying to be part of the Department of Trade and Industry's Scolar programme and looking for the necessary matched funding.
A sustainable energy agency is strongly supported by industry. British BioGen, the biomass trade association, offered unequivocal support, and the British Photovoltaic Association said, "Please highlight our support for the creation of a sustainable energy agency." The British Wind Energy Association also offered support in principle. The director of the Combined Heat and Power Association said:
4.53 pm
That leave be given to bring in a Bill to establish a sustainable energy agency to promote renewable energy generation and encourage energy efficiency; and for related purposes.
The case for a sustainable energy agency involves three elements--more jobs, lower energy costs and significant reductions in carbon dioxide emissions. Sustainable energy is more labour-intensive than the more conventional fossil fuel and nuclear energy industries. Investment in energy efficiency, such as combined heat and power--CHP--and some renewable energy investment, including net metering, will help to lower business and domestic energy costs, which is especially important for those who suffer from fuel poverty.
"Renewable energy sources--wind, biomass and solar--could be supplying a tenth of the world's energy by 2020 and half by 2050."
I am told that Shell's research predicted a quadrupling of the demand for electricity by 2050. That, by any definition, is a sizeable potential market. The European Union White Paper on energy stated that doubling the share of renewables in Europe alone would create between 500,000 and 900,000 new jobs. The small wind energy industry has already created more than 30,000 jobs in Europe.
"Creating an agency dedicated to the task of securing the deployment of sustainable energy should be a key part of the UK's modernisation agenda."
Sustainable energy offers the combination of significant environmental benefits and huge economic and social benefits--more jobs, lower costs and reduced carbon dioxide emissions--but some people still seem to think of renewables as the realm of only the lentil-eating, kaftan-wearing, open-toed sandal brigade. I am sure that the odd lentil still gets eaten, but the open-toed sandal and kaftan wearers--if they were ever there--are long gone and have been replaced by sharp-suited, dynamic and visionary entrepreneurs. The sustainable energy industry's time has come. An agency would help to turn tremendous potential into reality.
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