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Mr. Peter Bottomley: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. This is a brief point, which was dealt with at length in Committee, on the representations made by the United Kingdom Council for Overseas Student Affairs--representing British further and higher education institutions--on immigration advice and other technical points, and in relation to clauses 69 to 71 in the amended Bill and to clauses 63 to 65 in the unamended Bill. The only amendments tabled on Report directly affecting those clauses were one that was consequential on an earlier new clause, and one that was tabled by my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for North-East Bedfordshire(Sir N. Lyell). As those amendments are not likely to be debated, our further consideration of the Bill would be assisted if Ministers would supply a letter to UKCOSA on those higher education issues, if such a letter is outstanding.
Mr. Mike O'Brien: Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Michael J. Martin): Order. The point of order was not a matter for the occupant of the Chair, and was therefore not a point of order. However, Ministers have undoubtedly heard the comments of the hon. Member for Worthing, West (Mr. Bottomley), and we shall leave it at that.
Mr. Bottomley: Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We have had a substantial debate on new clause 6, and now have two and a half hours for the Bill's remaining stages. Not many matters other than Government amendments will be dealt with, so if the Minister were able to respond to the point, perhaps outside the Chamber, it would be much appreciated.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. What the Minister does outside the Chamber is entirely a matter for him, but I do not want him to respond to the point here.
New Clause 7
Repeal of section 8 of the Asylum and Immigration Act 1996
'.--Section 8 of the Asylum and Immigration Act 1996 (restrictions on employment) shall cease to have effect.'.--[Mr. Allan.]
Brought up, and read the First time.
Mr. Allan:
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Mr. Deputy Speaker:
With this, it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 150, in clause 15, page 11, line 7, leave out Clause 15.
No. 157, in schedule 14, page 141, line 35, column 3, at end insert 'Section 8'.
Mr. Allan:
New clause 7 is a straightforward proposal which seeks to repeal section 8 of the Asylum and Immigration Act 1996. The issue was debated at enormous length during the passage of the 1996 Act, when Labour Members expressed great concern about the potential impact of section 8. We have now been able to see how the section operates in practice, and Liberal Democrats believe that those earlier fears have been justified. We also believe that the Government should take this opportunity to honour the clear commitment that they made when in opposition to deal with section 8 and its discriminatory effects on employment prospects.
In Committee, we gave an undertaking to determine whether we could find a formula for revising section 8 that was better than the Government's proposals, so that Ministers would be able to keep to the spirit of section 8--to prevent the illegal employment of people who have no right to work--and to ameliorate its discriminatory effects. After investigating the matter, we--like Ministers--have found no way of substantially changing section 8, leaving us with the fairly straightforward decision whether to repeal it.
I ask Labour Members to read the debates on the 1996 Act, as the decision that we shall have to make today should be based on the precisely the same arguments. We have to determine whether the harm done by section 8--the discrimination against people from other countries in seeking employment--is outweighed by the benefit gained in deterring people from employing others illegally.
I believe that the evidence shows that the harm done by section 8 clearly outweighs any benefit that it brings, and that experience gained since passage of the 1996 Act makes the case for the section's repeal. My primary evidence for repealing the section has been provided by the Commission for Racial Equality and the National Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux, both of which have said that they have received many inquiries suggesting that employers are misapplying section 8, causing discrimination.
The CRE has said that it continues
"to receive inquiries that demonstrate widespread misunderstanding and the"--
often inadvertent--
16 Jun 1999 : Column 481
"application of unlawful discriminatory practices."
Citizens advice bureaux have given similar examples of individuals who have been on the receiving end of that discrimination, who have told the bureaux about how they were refused jobs by employers who were frightened to employ them because of the provisions of section 8, which could make them liable to pay fines of up to £5,000. Since then, the better regulation task force has clearly set out in its review of anti-discrimination legislation its belief that section 8 should be repealed.
9.30 pm
At the time when the 1996 Act was passed, the Government estimated that the increased costs to employers would total £13.5 million initially and £11.5 million in recurring costs. I should be interested to hear whether the Minister believes that those estimates have been borne out. The Government's proposals, which would impose a code of practice that is designed somehow to ameliorate the effects of section 8, might increase the costs to business. In any case, why should we believe that the new code of practice will be more effective in reducing discrimination than previous guidance issued by the Home Office?
I got the impression from the Minister that the new procedure would work as follows: in order to avoid direct discrimination, if any applicant for a job might conceivably have an immigration status that needs to be checked, the duty will be on the employer to check the immigration status of all applicants for the job. My constituency contains a university, and I know how common it is for foreign nationals to work in universities and apply for jobs in them. However, it would appear that for university employers--this point applies to many multinational and international companies as well--the way forward now is to check the eligibility for work under immigration rules of every applicant to each job. That is a huge burden, which is not outweighed by any potential benefits.
In respect of the benefits that could be attached to section 8, the Government's clear intention has been to send the message to employers that they should not illegally employ those who are not eligible to work. However, since section 8 came into force, there has been only one prosecution under its provisions. The Government have said that there are to be more, but it is clear that section 8 has not been used effectively.
The people we want to catch are the traffickers in human misery--the racketeers and gang masters who bring in people to work in the agricultural sector and other sectors. A more appropriate way in which to deal with them is under section 25 of the Immigration Act 1971 and, at the start of Report stage, we talked about strengthening the provisions of that Act to deal with such racketeers. I believe that we can take measures to deal with employers that do not involve burdening them with strict liability when they are found guilty of employing people illegally, given that that has been clearly shown to put employers off employing anyone other than obviously British white citizens, whose employment poses no risk to the employer under section 8 of the 1996 Act.
The CRE's verdict on section 8 is absolutely explicit:
16 Jun 1999 : Column 482
"There is no evidence that section 8 has proved to be an effective deterrent to illegal working or racketeering. It is likely to have increased the employment costs of good employers, and it has encouraged the unscrupulous to discriminate. For ethnic minority job-seekers it has added to the barriers which they face."
That is a clear indictment from an expert front-line organisation which is responsible for dealing with such matters. I understand that my hon. Friend the Member for Twickenham (Dr. Cable) will refer to evidence from the CBI and the TUC, which both regularly deal with employment issues on the front line.
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The case is clear. Some of the Labour Members present tonight were involved in the debates on the 1996 Act and they will remember the case that was made at that time. It has been proved that section 8 has had a discriminatory effect and there is nothing in the Bill to suggest that we can look forward to a period in which it will not continue to have serious negative effects. The Government should respond positively to the report of the better regulation task force, accept the amendment and repeal section 8. They should concentrate on hitting human traffickers with more appropriate measures, which now carry penalties of up to 10 years' imprisonment, rather than imposing a strict liability on all employers. That only leads employers to discriminate against people, many of whom have been British citizens for years or have a perfect right to work in British companies.
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