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11.7 am
Mr. John Grogan (Selby): Tourism authorities in Scotland have a distinct competitive advantage that gives them the edge over their colleagues in England and Wales. It is nothing to do with "Rob Roy", "Braveheart" or Sean Connery, or with the attractions that the Scottish Parliament may hold for tourists and visitors when it opens for business in a couple of weeks. In Edinburgh and Glasgow--as opposed to Birmingham and London--it is possible to get a drink after 11 pm. It is possible to have a drink with a meal in civilised surroundings without having to listen to loud dance music.
Mr. Fabricant: I share the hon. Gentleman's view about the abolition of licensing laws, but does he not agree that Scotland also enjoys a competitive advantage because it receives £3.76 per head in grant aid from the Government, whereas England gets only 20p?
Mr. Grogan: If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I shall develop my argument about licensing laws a little further. I may make other comparisons later. My central contention is that any measures that the Government take to boost tourism in England and Wales--especially in the context of the figures mentioned by the hon. Gentleman--would be dwarfed by the impact of abolition, or rather reform, of the licensing laws. That would have a major effect on the tourism industry.
I am delighted to note that the Government have committed themselves to liberalising and modernising the licensing laws. On 5 May last year, the Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, my hon. Friend the Member for Knowsley, North and Sefton, East (Mr. Howarth), said that it was time that the laws controlling pub and off-licence opening hours were
modernised. He said that new regulations should reflect changing social trends, and bolster the tourism and leisure industries. He did not call for total deregulation, but said that
We all know that the licensing laws date back, if not to the middle ages, at least to the first world war, when Lloyd George famously said:
Mr. Fabricant:
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the police in Lichfield tell me that they would prefer it if, instead of young people all streaming on to the streets just after 11 o'clock, the pubs were allowed to close at different times, so that there would be--dare I use the word--staggered closing times?
Mr. Grogan:
The hon. Gentleman is right to say that everyone spills on to the streets at the same time, with many people having drunk far too much in the final half hour. They are all after fast food and transport home at the same time. That is when trouble on the streets and violence occur. The crime argument is powerful.
The English have always had an ambivalent attitude to nightlife and the night-time economy. As long ago as 1941, a social commentator, Thomas Burke, wrote a book entitled "English Nightlife: From Norman Curfew to Present Black Out". The language is a little arcane, but it is worth bringing to the attention of the House. It states:
Our licensing law anomalies are not restricted just to those directly to do with hours. My local evening newspaper, the Evening Press in York--a city that
depends on tourism--has in the past year highlighted some of the anomalies in a series of editorials. I quote from the edition on 2 October 1998:
I chair an all-party panel that is examining the issue of liquor licensing reform. Some of our most powerful evidence has come from Scotland. Mr. David Smith, chairman of the British Institute of Innkeeping in Scotland, said:
Mr. Grogan:
The hon. Lady raises a good point. Only the House of Commons, railway trains and airlines are exempt.
Short-break tourism is affected. That sector is becoming more and more important as people want to pack as much as possible into 48 hours. In the Sunday supplements, there are articles on 48 hours in Barcelona and 48 hours in Milan. It is not possible to write such guides for many English cities.
My hon. Friend the Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Mr. Pendry) mentioned attracting big national events to Britain. The licensing laws harm our case. London First, the campaigning organisation for business, has said that
those laws reduce London's ability to attract major international events. They put us at a competitive disadvantage to other European cities.
The crime issue is the one that might finally clinch it for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department. It is obvious that change is needed. All the experiments--policies as well; they are more than experiments--show that. In Scotland, there was a relaxation during the garden festival in Glasgow in 1988. In some English cities, including Manchester and Leeds, there was some relaxation during the European football championships. There have been many experiments in Dutch cities. They always led chiefs of police to say that relaxation of the laws cuts crime. That is the most convincing argument.
Perversely, reforming the licensing laws is probably the only way in which we will improve the behaviour of some British tourists abroad. As the Evening Press pointed out on 10 June 1998:
"people should be able to decide when they want to go out and where they want to go".
A consultation paper has been promised early next year. It should be a White Paper, and "early next year" should mean January or February to allow the prospect of legislation in the current Parliament.
"We are fighting Germany, Austria and the drink and, as far as I can see, the greatest of these deadly foes is the drink".
The restrictive licensing laws that he subsequently introduced during the war have hampered the growth of our night-time and evening economies ever since, for the last 80 years. Our hospitality and tourism industries have become far more important during that time thanks to our increasing affluence, but they have been hemmed in by the liquor licensing laws. It is a great shame because some of our most innovative young entrepreneurs are in the hospitality sector. They are involved in bars, clubs and restaurants.
"Nightlife, nightclub, nightbird. There is something about the word 'night' as about the word 'Paris' that sends through some Englishmen a shiver of misgiving, and through another type a current of undue delight. The latter never get over the excitement of sitting up late, the others see any happening after midnight, even a game of Snakes and Ladders, as something verging on the unholy, as though Satan were never abroad in sunlight. A club they can tolerate, call it a nightclub and they see it as the ante room to Hell. This attitude towards entertainment after dark is held by most officials. Whenever they hear of some new development of nightlife they get a prickling of the thumbs and give the impression that they would be happier if the Universe had so contrived its system as to give the whole globe perpetual day."
That attitude has meant that, too often, our town and city centres after dark are the province of the young. Many people, citizens and tourists alike, are not catered for in towns and cities.
"Each time a York cafe-owner explains to a puzzled foreign tourist that he cannot simply sit and sip a beer on the premises, it sounds more absurd.
On 13 February 1999, the newspaper commented on the attempts of York city council to develop a cafe culture to attract more tourists to York. It said:
There is no point in explaining that a restaurant licence only allows the holder to serve alcohol with food. The perplexed visitor will be confused enough already."
"If cafe culture is good enough for families on the European mainland, then it should be good enough for ours in York.
Hours are the crux of the issue. It is clearly absurd that, in order for pubs to be able to stay open after 11 pm and for restaurants to stay open after midnight, they have to make more noise--they have to have a dance floor, food and entertainment, which is invariably loud dance music.
The support given by the licensing office to the notion of developing a sense of outdoor evening time bustle in England's ancient capital is to be applauded.
Serving drinks at pavement tables is more than just a sop to foreign tourists.
It is an opportunity to add excitement and colour to the grandeur of the architecture and street scenes of our historic city.
But while we are shouting bravo to the police and City Council . . . unyielding licensing laws are putting a dampener on the idea.
The price that has to be paid by enterprising cafes which have just received on-licences is that they must now bar from their premises all children aged under 14. That puts these premises out of reach for many families."
"Coming from Scotland, I find it incredible to witness the out of date licensing hours that are imposed on English public houses, particularly in the capital. This is nothing short of remarkable, even Cinderella was allowed out until 12.00 pm!
Mrs. Lait:
I am enjoying what the hon. Gentleman is saying and agree totally. Does he think that we would get reform of our licensing hours much more quickly if they were imposed in the House of Commons?
What do our visitors from Europe make of all this when they consider the sensible drinking hours they enjoy when spending their leisure time back home. These limitations will only serve to have a serious effect on tourism".
"At a time when foreign travel has become the norm, our inflexible approach to the alcohol trade is looking increasingly ludicrous. Some Britons holidaying on the Continent can be so overwhelmed by the ability to drink as and when they like that they over-indulge, explaining the somewhat ambivalent attitude of Europeans to British tourists."
The only way to change that is by changing our attitudes towards alcohol. Reforming our licensing laws is part of that.
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