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8.31 pm
Mr. Frank Doran (Aberdeen, Central): I welcome this initiative. The area that I represent is at the centre of the largest food producing area in Scotland--the north-east--and we have major farming and fishing industries, from the producers through to the processors. In addition, we have a number of scientific institutions that have a specific interest in food and food science. I firmly believe that the Bill, which I hope will lead to cleaner and more wholesome food, is in the interest of everyone in those industries.
Mr. Savidge: Does my hon. Friend feel that the extraordinary concentration of food producers, processors and researchers in Aberdeen, working across such a wide range of different types of food--from red and white meat to seafood, dairy produce and whisky--means that there is a strong case for it to be involved in the Scottish end of the FSA operation?
Mr. Doran: My hon. Friend will not be surprised to learn that that is a key element of my speech.
My right hon. Friend the Member for South Shields (Dr. Clark), who is no longer in his place, referred to the work of Professor Philip James from the Rowett research institute in Aberdeen, and the contribution that he has made to the development of policy in this area. I take an especial pleasure in that because I introduced my right hon. Friend to Professor James when my right hon. Friend was the Front-Bench spokesman on agriculture and I was previously a Member of Parliament. I am pleased that Professor James's work and the collaboration that they started then has led to this important measure.
In his report, Professor James identified three problems with the present system of regulation of food. He identified the potential for conflicts of interest within the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, arising from
its dual responsibilities for protecting public health and sponsoring the agriculture and food industries. He also identified the fragmentation and lack of co-ordination between the various Government bodies involved in food safety, and the uneven enforcement of food law. All of that has been evident in the years I have spent in the House.
Other hon. Members mentioned the various food scares there have been, such as those involving salmonella, BSE and E. coli, which was spoken of so movingly by my hon. Friend the Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Mr. Roy), and we have all heard of the recent problems in Belgium. When even a company of the size and status of Coca-Cola can have problems, we know that the issue is serious. The only way to deal with it is by proper independent regulation. We need a powerful independent agency, which will be provided by this legislation.
There is also a political aspect to the issue. In the years that I have been in the House, I have seen the various problems brought before the House and various Ministers skewered on their own complacency. That is certainly how the previous Government operated and I do not want to see that happen to my Government.
It is interesting that no contribution from the Conservatives today--from shadow Minister to Back Benchers--has shown any sign that that sense of complacency has gone. We have heard a succession of Corporal Frasers preaching doom about the disasters that will befall us if the Bill is passed. I exempt the hon. Member for North Shropshire (Mr. Paterson), as he attempted to make constructive proposals to deal with the problems that he envisaged. However, when he saidthat the food safety factor is often exaggerated, it demonstrated that he suffers from the same problem as his colleagues. A serious problem exists, and Conservative Members need to learn the lessons.
I hope that my hon. Friend the Minister, when he winds up, will deal with the several issues that I wish to raise. The first has to do with charging, on which most people have welcomed the Government's change of heart. I always thought that a uniform charge was wrong in principle, but the costs to the major food producers and supermarkets would have amounted to only a small proportion of their advertising budgets, let alone their turnovers. Although I believe that investing in food safety by means of the charge would be better for those companies than using the money in the budgets that I mentioned, the decision has been made. I respect the way in which the Government made it, and the consultation process that was held.
Nevertheless, I am concerned about the lack of powers for charging in the Bill. Clause 21(3) allows the agency to
In addition, will the agency be entitled to benefit from patents arising from any discoveries made as a result of work that it commissions or undertakes? I understand that the decision about charging has been made, but that does not mean that money cannot be raised in other ways.
I am also interested in how the agency will operate, given the constitutional changes that have been made. I heard what my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food said in his opening remarks, and I am pleased that the working parties are already studying how the cross-boundary systems willbe put in place. However, emergencies will arise occasionally and require very swift action. Will my hon. Friend the Minister say how they will be handled with the Scottish Parliament, the Welsh Assembly and, when it is in place, the Northern Ireland Assembly?
My hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen, North (Mr. Savidge) raised the issue of Aberdeen's suitability as the headquarters for the Scottish agency. In the north of Scotland, we were especially disappointed when the Government decided that the national agency would be located in London. We felt that there were many good reasons for locating it in Aberdeen.
Earlier, I mentioned the problem of a conflict of interest in the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, from where many of the new agency's personnel will be recruited. Many people outside the Ministry have felt for a long time that what might be called a cultural problem has affected the handling of food and food industry issues. One way to deal with that problem, and the public's perception of it, would be to create a certain amount of distance between the old Ministry and the location of the new agency. Given that one cannot get much further from London than Aberdeen, that geographical distance might have made a difference in terms of perception. In its early days, the agency will find it difficult to establish its independence, and an Aberdeen location might have assisted with that.
I am also conscious of the significant constitutional changes in the country. There is a perception that we will operate as four separate countries. I have fought all my political life for devolution and I firmly believe in devolving power away from this place, but that does not mean that we can no longer consider placing our national institutions outside England, particularly outside London. I can think of no greater statement in support of the Union than the location of the agency outside London, perhaps even in my city of Aberdeen.
My hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen, North mentioned our city's interest in food. We are one of the leading food-producing regions of the UK, particularly for red meat, white meat and marine fisheries. About 75 per cent. of the white fish landed in the United Kingdom is landed in the north-east of Scotland at Peterhead and Aberdeen. We have the bulk of the Scotch Whisky Association. We also have two universities with--
Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine):
Before the hon. Gentleman moves on to the research institutes, will he say whether he agree that it is not just the volume of our participation in the food industry, but the quality of our products and their added value that marks out the north-east of Scotland as a major area of food production?
Mr. Doran:
I agree entirely. Our quality produce is recognised and branded throughout the world. I hope that hon. Members appreciate the power of the local press in the debate.
We have two universities with their own schools of agriculture, and seven research institutes. Some 3,000 people in the north-east of Scotland are employed in
food research, mainly based around the city of Aberdeen. That is important. The all-party fisheries group had a meeting today with representatives of the fish-processing industry, which employs 5,000 people. We employ people from catchers and growers through to food processing and the scientists working at the cutting edge of food science, one of whom is Philip James, to whom I have spoken.
Mr. Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale):
I welcome the idea of a Food Standards Agency. The hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Mr. Roy) rightly stressed the importance of the benefits for consumers. We must also stress the benefits for the food industry, which is important in other areas as well as the north-east of Scotland. As the hon. Member for Edinburgh, South (Mr. Griffiths) said, it is essential to increase consumer confidence and ensure the independent monitoring of standards. We must remove the suspicion--even if it is unjustified--that MAFF and theScottish Office Agriculture, Environment and Fisheries Department are too close to the producers, from whom they are meant to be independent.
The food industry in Scotland thrives because of the reputation of its products, which are of the highest quality. The industry is vital to the rural areas--not just agriculture and horticulture, but food processing, marketing and retailing. An independent agency will help to maintain the industry's high standards and will reinforce public confidence in them.
With the notable exception of the speech of the hon. Member for Aberdeen, Central (Mr. Doran), the constitutional aspect of the Bill has been only briefly touched on in the debate. As the Minister and the hon. Member for Aberdeen, Central said, the matter has been devolved to the Scottish Parliament. It is one of the minority of areas that is specifically devolved to the Scottish Parliament by the Scotland Act 1998. Most devolved areas were devolved not deliberately, but by default because they were not on the reserved list in schedule 5. Section C8 of schedule 5 reserves product standards and safety to Westminster, but specifically exempts from that reservation
"make charges for facilities or services provided by it at the request of any person."
I should welcome an explanation of how that will operate in practice. In the research that the agency will either commission or undertake, material will be produced with great commercial value. Will the agency be entitled to charge for it?
"Food, agricultural and horticultural produce, fish and fish products, seeds, animal feeding stuffs, fertilisers and pesticides."
The whole area dealt with by the Food Standards Agency therefore comes within the remit of the new Scottish Parliament.
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