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Mr. Garnier: I rise merely to ask--perhaps it should have been a point of order--why the Minister considers it appropriate to move these lengthy amendments formally.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: That is not a matter for the Chair. If the Minister chooses to move them formally, that is a matter for him. If the hon. and learned Gentleman wishes to debate the amendments, he may do so.
Mr. Garnier: I merely seek an explanation from the Minister about what he intends. The Government have
proposed legislation and Ministers are present. It is their duty to explain to the House, and therefore to the public, what they propose to do.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: That is a matter for the Minister, but he has chosen to move the amendment formally.
Amendment agreed to.
Amendments made: No. 101, in page 46, line 14, after 'The' insert 'Greater London Magistrates' Courts'.
No. 102, in page 46, line 38, leave out from 'fund;' to 'arrangements' in line 42 and insert 'and
No. 103, in page 46, line 45, after 'applying' insert--
Mr. Vaz:
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
The Bill has been before Parliament since December and has made good progress. We have already paid tribute during its course to the various people who have contributed to it both here and in another place, but I add my personal thanks to the excellent officials of my Department.
As the Lord Chancellor has said, the Bill aims to improve access to justice. We are determined to build structures and to provide services that go further towards meeting people's needs than legal services do at present. That is the purpose of the community legal service. That is why we are introducing contracting for legal services with quality assured suppliers, extending the use of conditional fees and rights of audience, and reforming the magistrates courts system.
Many clever, dedicated, hard working people do their best to meet the needs of legal services. However, the existing system does not meet the needs of ordinary people, those with little money or run-of-the-mill cases. We want to re-orient legal services to make them more customer focused and to base them on a real assessment of need. To that end, the Bill sets up the community legal service, which will have the dual tasks of considering the need for civil and family legal services and putting in place the services required to meet those needs, as far as available resources will allow.
We are creating a criminal defence service to replace criminal legal aid. Publicly funded criminal defence services will continue to be available in all cases where the interests of justice require it. We are making success fees, conditional fee arrangements and insurance premiums recoverable in costs. We intend to extend the use of no win, no fee agreements. No hon. Member has successfully demonstrated that they are not the best possible way to extend access to justice in many cases. They will open up the law to many people to whom legal aid is currently not available.
We are reforming rights of audience by giving full rights to all lawyers who are suitably qualified and we are setting up a system to encourage the regulation of the legal professions to change with the times. We have put in place this very evening a means to encourage professional legal bodies, and in particular the Law Society, to handle complaints from customers much better. We hope never to use them but we would have failed in our duty if we had not acted. We are ensuring that civil appeals will be held at the right level and dealt with in a way proportionate to their weight and complexity.
Lastly, we are changing the organisation and management of magistrates courts, the better to serve the public and help our plans for better co-ordination in the civil justice system. I think that hon. Members will see that this is an impressive agenda for change. The creation of a community legal service is the most innovative part of the Bill and I believe that it will prove to be the most far-reaching proposal. The legal aid system was set up in a different world where recourse to law was far less frequent. The system has since grown substantially in real terms.
A Government bent on modernising and improving the whole range of public services must also look to see whether legal aid is being used in the right way. The
striking feature of our legal aid system is that it is not based on an objective assessment of what is needed. Nor do we know whether the outcome of the expenditure is the best that could be achieved. Of course, many worthwhile cases are supported and will continue to be supported, but other cases are supported in which there must be doubt as to whether pursuing them represents good use of public money. I, for one, would not wish to see taxpayers' money spent on funding legal services where alternatives are available.
(b) make'.
'(a) Part VIII of the Local Government Finance Act 1988 (financial administration); and
(b)'. --[Mr. Vaz.]
Amendments made: No. 91, in page 62, line 16, leave out '61,' and insert
'61(2), section 70 and Schedule 10 and section (Adjournment of inquest in event of judicial inquiry),'.
No. 3, in page 62, line 17, after & 75' insert
', (Code of conduct)'.--[Mr. Vaz.]
Amendment made: No. 104, in page 62, line 28, after 'Sections' insert
'(Judges holding office in European or international courts),'.--[Mr. Vaz.]
Amendments made: No. 92, in page 88, line 28, leave out 'necessary' and insert 'appropriate'.
No. 70, in page 88, line 29, leave out 'the rules' and insert
'the provisions of rules made, or of any code or guidance issued, by the Council,'.
No. 71, in page 88, line 30, at end insert--
'. In--
(a) section 32(4) of that Act (power of Council of the Law Society to disclose report or information about solicitor's accounts to Director of Public Prosecutions for investigation and prosecution of offences), and
(b) paragraph 3 of Schedule 2 to the Administration of Justice Act 1985 (corresponding provision in relation to accounts of incorporated practices),
omit "to the Director of Public Prosecutions" and ", if the Director thinks fit,'.
No. 72, in page 88, line 31, leave out
'After section 33 of that Act'
and insert
'In the Solicitors Act 1974, after section 33'.
No. 73, in page 88, line 43, leave out
'to the Director of Public Prosecutions'.
No. 74, in page 88, line 45, leave out
', if the Director thinks fit,'.
No. 75, in page 89, line 4, leave out '(incorporated practices)'.
No. 76, in page 89, line 10, leave out
'to the Director of Public Prosecutions'.
No. 77, in page 89, line 11, leave out
', if the Director thinks fit,'.
No. 78, in page 89, line 13, at end insert--
. In Schedule 1 to the Solicitors Act 1974 (intervention in solicitor's practice), in paragraph 1(1) (circumstances in which Law Society may intervene), in paragraph (c) (failure to comply with rules made by virtue of section 32 or 37(2)(c)), after "section" insert "31,".'.
No. 79, in page 89, line 15, leave out 'the Solicitors Act 1974' and insert 'that Act'.
No. 80, in page 89, line 45, at end insert
'and
(b) whichever of the Society and the Tribunal made it may at any time revoke it.'.
No. 81, in page 90, line 9, at end insert--
'. In section 44(2) of that Act (breach of order by solicitor), for the words from "an order" to the end of paragraph (b) substitute "an order under section 43(2) is in force in respect of a person".'.--[Mr. Cranston.]
Amendment made: No. 4, in page 106, leave out lines 11 to 13.--[Mr. Cranston.]
Ordered,
That Schedule 10, as amended, be transferred to end of line 36 on page 91.--[Mr. Cranston.]
Amendments made: No. 105, in page 106, line 20, leave out from beginning to '(definition' in line 19 on page 107 and insert--
. In section 2(1)(a) of the Public Works Loans Act 1965 (authorities to which Public Works Loans Commissioners may make unsecured loans), after sub-paragraph (iv) insert "and
(v) the Greater London Magistrates' Courts Authority;".
. In paragraph 1(a) of Schedule 4 to the National Loans Act 1968 (authorities to which local loans may be made), after sub-paragraph (iv) insert "and
(v) the Greater London Magistrates' Courts Authority,".
. In section 82(2A) of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988'.--
No. 106, in page 107, line 22, at end insert--
. The Local Government and Housing Act 1989 has effect subject to the following amendments.
. In section 39(1) (authorities to which provisions about revenue accounts and capital apply), after paragraph (e) insert--
"(ea) the Greater London Magistrates' Courts Authority;".
. In section 67(3) (authorities to which provisions about interests in companies apply), after paragraph (g) insert--
"(ga) the Greater London Magistrates' Courts Authority;".'.
No. 107, in page 107, line 24, leave out second 'of' and insert 'to'.
No. 108, in page 107, line 40, at end insert--
. In section 19(2) of the Local Government Finance Act 1992 (exclusion of Crown exemption in relation to certain authorities), after paragraph (e) insert--
"(ea) the Greater London Magistrates' Courts Authority;".'.
No. 109, in page 108, line 1, leave out
'of the Justices of the Peace Act 1997'.
No. 110, in page 108, line 6, leave out
'of the Justices of the Peace Act 1997'.
No. 111, in page 108, line 14, at end insert--
'. For section 50 substitute--
"Pensions of employees of GLMCA
50.--(1) The Lord Chancellor may, with the consent of the Minister for the Civil Service, make provision by order made by statutory instrument for section 1 of the Superannuation Act 1972 (pensions of civil servants etc) to apply to persons employed by the Greater London Magistrates' Courts Authority (and may make such provision by amendment of that Act).
(2) An order under subsection (1) above may provide for the Authority to pay to the Minister for the Civil Service, at such times as he may direct, such sums as he may determine in respect of the increase attributable to such provision in the sums payable under the Superannuation Act 1972 out of money provided by Parliament.
(3) Where an order under subsection (1) above is made, the Minister for the Civil Service may, to such extent and subject to such conditions as he thinks fit--
(a) delegate to any person the function of administering a scheme made under section 1 of the Superannuation Act 1972, so far as relating to employees of the Authority; or
(b) authorise the exercise of that function (so far as so relating) by, or by employees of, any person.
(4) A person to whom the function of administering a scheme made under section 1 of the Superannuation Act 1972 is delegated under subsection (3)(a) above may, to such extent and subject to such conditions as he may determine, authorise the exercise of that function by, or by employees of, any person.
(5) Where a person is authorised under subsection (3)(b) or (4) above to exercise the function of administering a scheme made under section 1 of the Superannuation Act 1972, anything done or omitted to be done by or in relation to him (or an employee of his) in, or in connection with, the exercise or purported exercise of the function shall be treated for all purposes as done or omitted to be done by the person who authorised him.
(6) Subsection (5) above does not apply for the purposes of--
(a) any criminal proceedings against the authorised person (or any employee of his); or
(b) any contract between him and the person who authorised him, so far as relating to the function.
(7) A statutory instrument containing an order under subsection (1) above shall be subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.".'.
No. 112, in page 108, line 15, leave out
'of the Justices of the Peace Act 1997'.--[Mr. Cranston.]
Amendments made: No. 5, in page 109, leave out lines 25 to 28 and insert--
'2.--(1) Section 13 of the Evidence Act 1851 (proof of previous conviction by copy of record certified by clerk) is amended as follows.
(2) Number the existing provision as subsection (1) and for the words from "under the hand" to "such clerk or other officer," substitute "by the proper officer of the court where such conviction or acquittal took place".
(3) After that subsection insert--
"(2) In subsection (1) "proper officer" means--
(a) in relation to a magistrates' court in England and Wales, the justices' chief executive for the court; and
(b) in relation to any other court, the clerk of the court or other officer having the custody of the records of the court, or the deputy of such clerk or other officer."
The Criminal Procedure Act 1865 (c.18)
2A.--(1) Section 6 of the Criminal Procedure Act 1865 (proof of previous conviction of witness by certificate signed by clerk) is amended as follows.
(2) Number the existing provision as subsection (1) and for the words from "the clerk" to "such clerk or officer," substitute "the proper officer of the court where the offender was convicted".
(3) After that subsection insert--
"(2) In subsection (1) "proper officer" means--
(a) in relation to a magistrates' court in England and Wales, the justices' chief executive for the court; and
(b) in relation to any other court, the clerk of the court or other officer having the custody of the records of the court, or the deputy of such clerk or other officer."
The Prevention of Crimes Act 1871 (c.112)
2B.--(1) Section 18 of the Prevention of Crimes Act 1871 (evidence of previous conviction by record signed by clerk) is amended as follows.
(2) For the words from "clerk of the court" to "such clerk or officer;" substitute "proper officer of the court by which such conviction was made;".
(3) For "clerk or other officer" substitute "proper officer".
(4) At the end of that section insert--
"In this section "proper officer" means--
(a) in relation to a magistrates' court in England and Wales, the justices' chief executive for the court; and
(b) in relation to any other court, the clerk of the court or other officer having the custody of the records of the court, or the deputy of such clerk or other officer.".'.
No. 6, in page 109, line 39, at end insert
'(but that section as modified in relation to Northern Ireland by section 11 of that Act is not so amended)'.
No. 7, in page 134, leave out lines 3 and 4 and insert--
'172.--(1) Section 68 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 (power to summon witness) is amended as follows.
(2) In subsection (4) (particulars of fine to be given to clerk), for "clerk" substitute "proper officer".
(3) After that subsection insert--
"(4A) In subsection (1) above "proper officer" means--
(a) in relation to a magistrates' court in England and Wales, the justices' chief executive for the court, and
(b) in relation to a magistrates' court in Northern Ireland, the clerk of the court.".'.--[Mr. Cranston.]
Amendments made: No. 82, in page 137, line 45, at end insert--
. If section 32 of this Act comes into force before section 1 of the Tax Credits Act 1999, the reference in section 32 to disabled person's tax credit shall, until section 1 of the Tax Credits Act 1999 comes into force, have effect as a reference to disability working allowance.'.
No. 8, in page 141, line 6, leave out
'coming into force of section 74 of this Act,'
and insert
'Greater London Magistrates' Courts Authority becomes the magistrates' courts committee for Greater London,'.
No. 9, in page 142, line 10, leave out
'begins to act as a magistrates' courts committee,'
and insert
'becomes the magistrates' courts committee for Greater London,'.
No. 10, in page 142, line 12, at end insert--
'(2) For the purposes of sections 39A and 39B of the Justices of the Peace Act 1997 (inserted by section (Code of conduct) of this Act) the Authority shall be treated as a magistrates' courts committee until it actually becomes the magistrates' courts committee for Greater London.'.
No. 113, in page 143, line 4, at end insert--
.--(1) Stamp duty shall not be chargeable--
(a) on any scheme under paragraph 32, or
(b) on any instrument or agreement which is certified to the Commissioners of Inland Revenue by the Lord Chancellor as made in pursuance of such a scheme.
(2) No such scheme, and no instrument or agreement which is certified as mentioned in sub-paragraph (1)(b), shall be taken to be duly stamped unless--
(a) it has, in accordance with section 12 of the Stamp Act 1891, been stamped with a particular stamp denoting that it is not chargeable with that duty or that it is duly stamped, or
(b) it is stamped with the duty to which it would be liable, apart from this paragraph.
(3) Section 12 of the Finance Act 1895 shall not operate to require--
(a) the delivery to the Inland Revenue of a copy of this Act, or
(b) the payment of stamp duty under that section on any copy of this Act,
and shall not apply in relation to any instrument on which, by virtue of sub-paragraph (1), stamp duty is not chargeable.'.
No. 114, in page 143, line 29, at end insert--
.--(1) The Lord Chancellor may by order made by statutory instrument make provision about the provision of pensions for or in respect of persons who are or have been members of the inner London court staff.
(2) An order under this paragraph may include provision for, or in connection with--
(a) enabling persons to participate, or continue to participate, in any pension scheme and requiring their employers to make contributions under that scheme, and
(b) the administration or management of pension schemes or pension funds.
(3) Provision of the kind specified in sub-paragraph (2)(a) may--
(a) with the consent of the Minister for the Civil Service, include provision for section 1 of the Superannuation Act 1972 (pensions of civil servants etc) to apply to persons who are or have been members of the inner London court staff, or
(b) include provision for persons who have been members of the inner London court staff but who are employees of the Greater London Magistrates' Courts Authority by virtue of a scheme under paragraph 32 to be regarded as continuing to be members of the metropolitan civil staffs for the purposes of section 15 of the Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1967 (pensions of metropolitan civil staffs).
(4) An order under this paragraph containing provision of the kind specified in sub-paragraph (3)(a) may also contain provision for such body or person as may be specified in the order to pay to the Minister for the Civil Service, at such times as he may direct, such sums as he may determine in respect of the increase attributable to such provision (so far as referable to that body or person) in the sums payable under the Superannuation Act 1972 out of money provided by Parliament.
(5) Where an order is made under this paragraph containing provision of the kind specified in sub-paragraph (3)(a), the Minister for the Civil Service may, to such extent and subject to such conditions as he thinks fit--
(a) delegate to any person the function of administering a scheme made under section 1 of the Superannuation Act 1972, so far as relating to persons who are or have been members of the inner London court staff, or
(b) authorise the exercise of that function (so far as so relating) by, or by employees of, any person.
(6) A person to whom the function of administering a scheme made under section 1 of the Superannuation Act 1972 is delegated under sub-paragraph (5)(a) may, to such extent and subject to such conditions as he may determine, authorise the exercise of that function by, or by employees of, any person.
(7) Where a person is authorised under sub-paragraph (5)(b) or (6) to exercise the function of administering a scheme made under section 1 of the Superannuation Act 1972, anything done or omitted to be done by or in relation to him (or an employee of his) in, or in connection with, the exercise or purported exercise of the function shall be treated for all purposes as done or omitted to be done by the person who authorised him.
(8) Sub-paragraph (7) does not apply for the purposes of--
(a) any criminal proceedings against the authorised person (or any employee of his), or
(b) any contract between him and the person who authorised him, so far as relating to the function.
(9) An order under this paragraph may provide that any enactment repealed by this Act shall continue to have effect for any purpose specified in the order with such modifications as may be so specified.
(10) A statutory instrument containing an order under this paragraph shall be subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.
(11) In this paragraph the "inner London court staff" means--
(a) the justices' chief executive employed by the magistrates' courts committee for the area consisting of the inner London boroughs,
(b) any justices' clerk for that area, and
(c) staff of the magistrates' courts committee for that area.'.--[Mr. Cranston.]
Amendments made: No. 83, in page 145, line 54, at end insert--
'1998 c. 37. The Crime and Disorder Act 1998. Section 49(1)(j).
Section 50(5).
In Schedule 8, paragraph 67.'.
No. 84, in page 146, line 12, column 3, leave out from 'section' to end of line 14 and insert
'32(4), the words "to the Director of Public Prosecutions" and the words ", if the Director thinks fit,".'.
No. 93, in page 146, line 36, column 3, at beginning insert 'Section 9(2)(g).'.
No. 85, in page 146, line 37, column 3, after '2,' insert
'in paragraph 3, the words "to the Director of Public Prosecutions" and the words ", if the Director thinks fit," and,'.
No. 86, in page 147, line 24, column 3, at end insert--
'In Schedule 3--
in paragraph 3, in sub-paragraph (1) the words "with the approval of the Treasury" and, in sub-paragraph (2), the words ", with the consent of the Treasury,",
in paragraph 4(2) the words "given with the consent of the Treasury", and
in paragraph 9(3), the words "with the approval of the Treasury".'.
No. 115, in page 155, line 21, at end insert--
'1965 c. 63. The Public Works Loans Act 1965. In section 2(1)(a), the word "and" at the end of sub-paragraph (iii).
No. 116, in page 155, line 24, at end insert--
'1968 c. 13. The National Loans Act 1968. In Schedule 4, in paragraph 1(a), the word "and" at the end of sub-paragraph (iii).
1971 c. 56. The Pensions (Increase) Act 1971. In Schedule 6, paragraph (d).'
No. 117, in page 155, leave out lines 27 to 35.
No. 118, in page 155, leave out line 44.--[Mr. Cranston.]
Ordered,
That Part IV(5) (Enforcement of community orders) of Schedule 14 be transferred to end of line 27 on page 148.--[Mr. Vaz.]
Amendment made: No. 119, line 4, leave out from 'appeals' to 'court' in line 8 and insert ', courts, judges and'.--[Mr. Cranston.]
Order for Third Reading read.--[Queen's consent, on behalf of the Crown, signified.]11.21 pm
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