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Angela Smith (Basildon): Will my hon. Friend give way?
Mr. Burden: I am sorry, but I have only 10 minutes.
At present, in some parts of the country, some votes have no influence on the overall election result. Under the Jenkins proposal--[Interruption.]
Mr. Deputy Speaker:
Order. I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Gentleman, but the hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr. Hayes) must contain himself. I will not have a continuous sedentary commentary from the Back Benches.
Mr. Burden:
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I have no doubt that the hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings may be able to catch your eye later.
The dynamics of our current electoral system force political parties to target their efforts on about 100 or so marginal seats. I am pleased that in the previous election the Labour party won more seats than that, but it does not alter the fact that the dynamics of our system force attention on those seats that make the difference between winning and losing. We need an end to the electoral deserts that we have seen all too often in elections in this country and must ensure that every vote in every seat counts. I believe that the Jenkins system will do that.
It is clear that Conservative Members do not support a referendum on electoral reform. I ask them to think about that. It is absolutely right for us in the House to debate these issues, but we are not the people who should make the final decision on how we are elected or the political system of the country. The people of this country should have the right to decide. Sure, we can advise and campaign, but it should be their choice.
Miss Julie Kirkbride (Bromsgrove):
I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for Leeds, Central (Mr. Benn) on a first-class maiden speech. It was nice to see his father's face shining with pride. Following in the footsteps of the right hon. Member for Chesterfield (Mr. Benn) will not be easy, as he is regarded throughout the House as a first-class parliamentarian. We look forward to his son making an equal contribution in the fullness of time. It was interesting to note that both father and son agree on first past the post. I hope, for the future of the latter's ministerial career, that their accord does not continue.
It is Conservative Members' aim to persuade the Government to drop their commitment to holding a referendum on proportional representation. We believe that we already have the right system for election to the House and that to change it in any way would be damaging. I take issue with the hon. Member for Birmingham, Northfield (Mr. Burden), because the experience in other countries is that people vote in referendums--and by-elections--not necessarily on the basis of the issue at hand but on the basis of their approval or disapproval of the Government. That is another reason why Conservative Members are wary of holding a referendum on this vital issue.
To change the system of election to the House would be to change fundamentally the way in which the British people are governed.
Ms Oona King:
Does the hon. Lady agree that an electoral system that has twice given the party that won the lesser number of votes victory in a general election needs to be changed?
Miss Kirkbride:
The hon. Lady's point refers to a blip in history. We have an effective, tried and tested system of democracy that has delivered the most important thing for the British people: peace in our country, effective government and a tolerant and civilised society. First past the post has been an important ingredient in that process, from which we can all take great heart.
We fear that the Government's agenda has been to tinker with our constitutional arrangements in a way that has caused a great deal of upset. The devolution debate is over for Scotland and Wales but certainly not for England. When I suggested a few weeks ago that there was great anxiety in my constituency about the West Lothian question and the way in which the Government are ignoring it, my comments were much derided, but the questions are still to be answered. The Government have tinkered with the system without fully thinking through the final outcome for our constitution.
Proportional representation is not a relevant way forward. There is anxiety among Scottish Members of Parliament who are getting into turf wars with Members of the Scottish Parliament about how properly to serve their constituents. That cannot be good for democracy. The west midlands now has eight Members of the European Parliament and nobody really feels that they represent one specific place. The west midlands is an enormous area.
I spoke to the managing director of a Stoke pottery who said that the great pity of the new arrangements for MEPs is that he no longer feels that there is someone
representing his area to whom he can take his concerns about European regulations that affect his industry owing to the fact that Europe has competence in the United Kingdom over trade and industrial matters. That highlights the problem of having no clear link between the people and their parliamentary representative.
I am proud to be a Member of Parliament and I enjoy taking my constituents around the House. We are privileged to work in a fabulous and historic building. When we get to Central Lobby, I like to explain the heart of our democratic system: the fact that all 659 of us represent a piece of turf in the United Kingdom in a very direct way, so that anyone from Bromsgrove or anywhere else in the country can come to the House, hand in their green card--I explain that it is as well to remind us that they are coming--and speak to someone who makes laws on their behalf and is obliged to listen to their point of view. That is fundamental to the confidence that the people have in the way in which they are governed, and we throw that aside at our peril.
We can see from the experience of other countries how dangerous it is to throw that principle aside. I had the pleasure of visiting New Zealand last year and heard at first hand what a disaster the PR system had been there. New Zealand faced many of the same problems as the United Kingdom in the past 20 years, but it used to have a first-past-the-post system that could deliver a Government who were capable of dealing with those problems. It now has a PR system under which no agreement can be reached on anything. I fear for the economic future of New Zealand if tough decisions cannot be taken because of the horse-trading that has to ensue before any lowest common denominator decision can be taken. That is a fundamental point.
I shall end my remarks with an appeal to the Minister to make a decision on this important matter. The Opposition would prefer it if the Government dropped the idea of a referendum. It is vital that we have a democratic system under which the people decide the outcome of a general election. We had mini PR systems in Scotland and Wales. After the parliamentary elections in Scotland, it was not clear who would govern in the Scottish Parliament. There was horse-trading with the Liberal Democrats, who disgracefully reneged on the pledge they made before the election to axe the student loans scheme, so the Scottish people did not get the outcome that they wanted.
Mr. Stephen Twigg (Enfield, Southgate):
I am delighted to have this opportunity to contribute briefly to the debate. I join colleagues on both sides of the House in welcoming my new hon. Friend the Member for Leeds, Central (Mr. Benn), whose confidence and eloquence are a taste of things to come. I am sure that he will contribute to many of our debates.
I welcome the fact that we are having this debate. Prior to the 1997 general election, many people said that the Labour party's commitment to constitutional and democratic reform would be dropped were Labour to form a majority Government. In the past two years, we have
remained absolutely true to the commitments that we made to renew our democracy. The commitment in our manifesto to hold a referendum on electoral reform for the House of Commons was first made by the late leader of the Labour party, John Smith, and reaffirmed by the Prime Minister. It was the policy of the Labour party and the Liberal Democrats at the general election.
It is right that the decision on an issue as fundamental as how we elect the main Chamber of our Parliament should rest with the people. I hope that this debate will be held not just in this Chamber but in the country so that the people can participate. I welcome the Government's amendment, which reaffirms that policy.
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