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7.29 pm
Mr. Robert Key (Salisbury): We are very grateful to the hon. Member for Middlesbrough (Mr. Bell), the Second Church Estates Commissioner, for introducing the Measure and thank him for all the work he has put in over the past year and more. We are also grateful to the Ecclesiastical Committee.
Out in the real world, people do not know what the Ecclesiastical Committee is, and I think they assume that it is an ad hoc Committee of fully paid-up members of the
Church of England--that, of course, it is not. It is a Committee of both Houses and of all parties and none, notably cross-Benchers in the House of Lords, and of all denominations and none. It was set up to ensure that Church of England legislation impacts reasonably on the citizens of this country--of whatever denomination, or none, they may be.
The Committee consists of a number of distinguished hon. Members who have given a great deal of service, and none greater than my hon. Friend the Member for South Staffordshire (Sir P. Cormack), who has served some 28 years on the Committee. We congratulate him on that. Two members of the Committee represent cathedral cities--Exeter and Southwark. I had anticipated that they would be here tonight and had hoped to refer to them, but neither took part in the relevant proceedings of the Ecclesiastical Committee, either the examination of witnesses or the decision to agree that the Cathedrals Measure was expedient on 18 June 1998. However, it gives me great pleasure to see my right hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Mr. Brooke) here as he represents St. Paul's cathedral.
May I declare an interest at this point? I am a member of the guild of stewards of Salisbury cathedral. That is not some grand office; it simply means that I take the collection and welcome visitors. To those who work in our cathedrals, particularly volunteers, the kerfuffles in the abbey and the events at Lincoln have an air of virtual reality--or, indeed, complete unreality in some cases. At Salisbury, the dean and the precentor, above all, keep an eye on the stewards. We all know that there are stewards and stewards. Those of us who visit other cathedrals around the country know that some stewards are pompous, some are vain, some are control freaks, some are quick-witted and some are otherwise, and some are over-enthusiastic with visitors.
When one is a steward, one never quite knows what will happen. One never knows where the processions will go; one is not sure whether there should be incense or not, and what difference that will make; one never knows how many people will turn up for Sunday school; and one does not know whether to use two bags or three for the collection, and whether they will be dropped. Those are the realities of life in a cathedral, as opposed to the legalistic discussion that the Ecclesiastical Committee has enjoyed over the past year or so.
Volunteers in cathedrals must now be aware of health and safety rules. They must know how to evacuate a cathedral, how to give medical assistance--I vividly recall running out of aspirin for somebody a couple of weeks ago in Salisbury cathedral--and how to cope with revellers at midnight services and interrogations from earnest American visitors seeking tombs. A couple of weeks ago, I was challenged by an American claiming that his ancestor was St. Margaret of Scotland and asking where her chapel was. Fortunately, I knew the answer. Unfortunately, we also have to cope with the grief of the stricken, the downhearted and the bereaved.
The cathedral communities are rich and rounded, and it is a privilege to serve in them. I have known Salisbury since I was two years old. I recall lighting the Christmas tree in Salisbury cathedral 50 years ago.
Mr. Peter Bottomley:
The tree or the candles?
Mr. Key:
I lit the candles, not the tree. Now, candles are too dangerous and we have to have twinkling little electric lights, which are a bit twee. Never mind, they are still wonderful.
My late father was the Bishop of Sherborne, which is a suffragan of Salisbury, and later of Truro. My son was a chorister in Salisbury and my daughters attended the Sunday school.
I have discussed the Cathedrals Measure with my bishop and my dean, and I have read the Measure and the report of the Ecclesiastical Committee. Incidentally, I have met the Dean of Westminster to discuss the administration of the abbey and the issue of Royal Peculiars.
I support the Measure, although I do so with some regrets. First, I regret very much the deeply damaging fiasco at Westminster abbey concerning its most distinguished former organist. That should simply never have occurred. Due process of law has now been followed, at substantial cost. To most people, the outcome remains unhappy and unsatisfactory.
Inevitably, all of that drew in the Royal Peculiars. I appreciate and agree that they are quite different from cathedrals, and in due course proposals may be put to the Ecclesiastical Committee by the legislative committee of the Synod. The bad press surrounding all of that was deeply wounding to all those involved, not just in Westminster abbey, but throughout the Church, however humble their function--passing the collection bags--or much more exalted occupations. I shall draw a line under that subject, because I am sure that other hon. Members will wish to refer to it.
My other regret and reservation is that the ancient statutes of our cathedrals have worked most of the time and in most cathedrals. However, synodical government has not worked particularly well since its introduction. It has undermined the authority of the archbishops, bishops, deans, chapters and parish priests in the name of wider participation and greater accountability. Ultimately, however, it has done little to increase either.
Mr. Peter Bottomley:
A number of us would not necessarily agree with what my hon. Friend said about Westminster abbey, although this is not the place to have that discussion. Lack of defence should not therefore be taken as all-round agreement.
On synodical government, does my hon. Friend accept that many archbishops have said that synodical government is pretty grim, but that it might be slightly less grim than taking all stages of Church legislation through this House, which would have been the alternative?
Mr. Key:
The archbishops may agree with that, and I am sure that they do not want to have a grim life and will do anything to make it a bit easier. Nevertheless, I stand by what I said: I regret the diminution in the authority of bishops in the Church of England and, indeed, other bishops.
The bishops are under great pressure. Indeed, they have never been under greater pressure and I deplore the unwarranted attacks that are made on them from time to time. I leap to the defence of my bishop, who was accused
by a Sunday tabloid of leading an extravagant life style, with champagne breakfasts and all the other nonsense that goes with that. It is important to get this matter in perspective and to realise that a senior diocesan bishop earns about half the pay of a Member of Parliament and about the same as the head of a village primary school in my constituency. Just as business men do not count their offices, their secretaries or their expenses as income, nor do bishops--quite properly. The same applies to journalists, council staff or anybody else. It is hypocrisy of a high order to attack bishops, deans or any other members of the clergy, who are, by any standards, modestly paid, on those grounds.
Cathedrals, however, have become big business. They now call for a new quality of leadership and management, which was not needed 50 or even 10 years ago. The lay functions involved in running our cathedrals have grown enormously, as have the responsibilities for the fabric, the worship, the music and the volunteers. Even responsibility for the sandwiches and cups of tea has grown out of all proportion. It has sometimes been wounding to volunteers when they have had to be told that things have become so professional that they simply cannot keep up with the requirements.
Above all, the Measure entrenches and spreads best practice, much of which already exists. For example, since I first had the privilege of worshipping in Salisbury cathedral, the numbers involved in the life of the cathedral have risen dramatically. There are two choirs instead of one, and we established the first girls' choir in the country. The cathedral school has grown, and the responsibilities of the chapter office have increased. The cathedral's budget has risen, as have the charges for entering the cathedral, which is visited by tourists from all over the world. However, it must be said that the heating and the sound systems work, thanks often to the friends of the cathedrals, who meet much of the cost.
The cathedral close no longer looks tatty as it did when I was a child. Indeed, it may have gone a little far in the other direction and have become something of a millionaires' row, with all respect to my right hon. Friend the Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup (Sir E. Heath), who occupies a house in the close. He is very welcome.
Management problems for our cathedrals have also increased. Above all, the number of worshippers has risen dramatically. I remember how empty Salisbury cathedral was when I was a child, and I attended most Sundays. By comparison, today congregations are measured in hundreds on an ordinary Sunday and by thousands at the great festivals. We should acknowledge that.
Congregations are up, and the electoral roll is up. Salisbury has an electoral roll of 504 this year. The offertory fund is up: we are paying our way as a congregation. The fund stood at £127,000 last year. Last year, the guild of stewards, of which I am a junior member, undertook 1,480 individual duties at 315 services. And we should not forget the 56 "holy dusters" who keep the stalls, the lights and so on clean and shining bright.
Let us put this in perspective. The Measure is intended to spread best practice. Those of us who serve in cathedrals are proud to do so, and the Measure gives an added dimension to the quality of our lives while, hopefully, giving something back to our communities.
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