| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
Mr. Gareth R. Thomas: The hon. Gentleman obviously has something of a selective memory. Does he
recall that under the previous Government, about £30 million was spent on consultants' fees for PFI without one scheme coming to fruition?
Mr. Duncan: We launched PFI, which is very successful, and I suppose that that is why the Government are continuing to pursue it in one form or another, even though they said that they would get rid of it.
The Government have mastered the language but not the thinking. They say one thing and do another. I want to attach a permanent health warning to their use of the word "partnership". Beware the Labour word "partnership". It is not what they want people to think it is. It is a cover for collectivism, corporatism and, as we see elsewhere in the Government, cronyism. What really lies behind the use of the word is more Government interference and intervention.
Mr. Jim Murphy (Eastwood):
I am delighted to take part in this debate--the first Friday morning debate in which I have participated. It is rather cosy and intimate, but that does not disguise the strong differences of opinion on the issue. I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for Rutland and Melton (Mr. Duncan), who made quite a long speech.
Mr. Murphy:
Fortunately, there was an end; no point, but an end.
I am also pleased to follow a fellow Scot, my right hon. Friend the Minister of State, who has now emigrated to Wigan. In a debate on enterprise and innovation, which includes invention, my right hon. Friend should not have been ashamed of his accent, whether it be Glaswegian, Ayrshire or with a hint of north-west England, because it was Scots who invented many of the great modern equipment and techniques and much that we now take for granted, such as the television and electricity.
My right hon. Friend spoke about call centres and Scottish accents. It was a Scot who invented the telephone, without which call centres would not exist. Without Scottish inventions, the hon. Member for Rutland and Melton could not have had a car in his phone and, more than that, if McAdam had not invented tarmac--tarmacadam--he would have had nowhere to drive his telephone with his car in it.
As my right hon. Friend said, we have a Government not only of economic competence, but of innovation. They have introduced a whole raft of policy innovations to deliver economic stability. In week 1, the Bank of England became independent. That was much criticised by the official Opposition, but much welcomed by business and others outside the House.
In the two years that I have been a Member of Parliament, I have not heard a proclamation or even a whisper from the Conservatives on whether they would
reverse that policy. The hon. Member for Rutland and Melton was invited by my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow, West (Mr. Thomas) to tell us, but he refused. He said that he supported Conservative party policy. What is Conservative party policy on the issue? Is it to reverse the independence of the Bank of England or to stay with the stable environment created by the correct decision taken in the first week or so of the Labour Government?
Independence for the Bank of England has helped us to deliver low inflation and provide an economic framework to guarantee long-term investment. Labour is the champion of long-term investment because we know that we must invest in our people and our infrastructure.
Mr. Butterfill:
The hon. Gentleman has referred several times to the independence of the Bank of England. There are independent central banks elsewhere in the world, but they are truly independent. There is a big difference between independent banks with an independent system for appointing their governors and the system introduced by the Chancellor, whereby the Governors of the Bank of England are appointed by him. That must call into question, at least to some extent, their true independence.
Mr. Murphy:
The Government will decide what is in Britain's best economic interest. There are other models in the world, but I find it slightly odd that Conservative Members should encourage us to mimic European examples, when they are so hostile to much else that is European. The structure of the Monetary Policy Committee and the way in which the Bank operates seem to be very popular among the business community.
Mr. Geraint Davies:
Long-term interest rates are at their lowest for 40 years. Long-term interest rates are an expectation on the part of the financial markets of future inflation. The markets are saying that they accept the current structure of the Bank of England as independent of political interference and believe that it will generate stable and low levels of inflation in the long term. That is precisely what the Government and the country want.
Mr. Murphy:
My hon. Friend is characteristically accurate, and furthermore, if the Conservatives intend to reverse the Bank's independence if they come to power, it is clear that the business community has faith that they will not come to power, even in the long term.
My right hon. Friend the Minister of State talked about the skills gap and upskilling, and Conservative Members talked about downskilling. I was delighted to hear him reaffirming the Government's commitment to the university for industry, and telling us how many people will benefit from it and on what time scale.
We have had the traditional jousting on the one issue in which the Conservatives seem interested in this Parliament: the single European currency. I was pleased to hear again that the Government are committed in principle to joining a successful euro. That is important because it will set the economic framework and give advance notice to those who compete in business, in this country and internationally. We have laid down five economic criteria that will stand the test of time, in contrast with the Opposition, whose only test is time. That is an important difference between us.
My right hon. Friend the Minister eloquently described new Labour's belief that social justice is the natural partner of enterprise and innovation. Social justice is not in competition with enterprise and innovation, although the hon. Member for Rutland and Melton gave the impression that he thought that that was the case when he said that small businesses must have their social costs cut. In his mind, every great social advance that the Government have introduced seemed to be a hindrance to small businesses and the economic competence and innovation of this nation.
Mr. Gareth R. Thomas:
Is my hon. Friend aware that many small businesses campaigned for the introduction of the national minimum wage because they did not wish to be undercut by other employers?
Mr. Murphy:
My hon. Friend is right, and I am sure that he talks from his experience in Harrow. In my constituency, it is my experience from the many events that I organise with my local business community that the national minimum wage is indeed popular, with businesses and with the many thousands of people who benefit from it.
Mr. Butterfill:
To suggest that small businesses are in favour of the national minimum wage is extraordinary. I would like to know which small businesses the hon. Gentleman means, because the National Federation of Small Businesses is implacably opposed to it and has claimed that it will do its members immense damage.
Mr. Murphy:
In tests of opinion, small businesses have shown their support for the national minimum wage. I know from my experience and from talking to hon. Members from both sides of the House that small businesses have been ahead of the game in preparing for the national minimum wage, adapting to it and benefiting from it, because it has given a boost to our economy.
In discussions about the national minimum wage, I am always reminded of a hustings held during the general election campaign in Barrhead in my constituency, at which a security guard said that he was paid less than £1.50 an hour. He was married with a family, but it is not acceptable for anyone to be paid £1.50 an hour. It is not acceptable that the market allows that to happen or that a Government allow that to happen. I hope that the gentleman comes back to the hustings in a couple of years and asks me again what we will do for the low paid. I also hope that he is no longer doing that job and that his economic position has improved, but I will look him in the eye and tell him the truth: we made a commitment to introduce a national minimum wage, and we have done so. What I do not know is what my Conservative opponent at those hustings will say. Will he tell the audience that his party would abolish the national minimum wage, adjust it or leave it alone?
Mr. Dawson:
In an earlier exchange, the hon. Member for Rutland and Melton (Mr. Duncan) studiously avoided answering that question about the national minimum wage. One of my local employers said that the national minimum wage and the trade union legislation were important because they cut out the cowboys, but the hon. Gentleman seemed to be proposing a cowboy culture in British industry.
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |