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Ms Hodge: I beg to move amendment No. 18, in page 20, line 25, leave out 'with immediate effect'.
The amendment relates to new provisions now contained in clause 4 and schedule 3, following Committee consideration, on non-discrimination notices and action plans, to which we have already referred. The Bill as it now stands enables the commission to require a person to submit an action plan to address any unlawful acts that have been committed and which are specified in a non-discrimination notice.
The amendment relates to paragraph 19 of schedule 3, which would enable an action plan which has become final to be varied with the agreement of the commission and the person concerned. The amendment would allow flexibility in terms of when any variations would take effect. The Bill as currently drafted would mean that any changes agreed would take immediate effect. By taking out the words "immediate effect", we would enable the commission, the individual and the organisation to respond to those occasions when the commission and the person concerned wanted to agree a variation in advance.
It may help if I give an example. A person may be making provision for a disabled person in a particular way in accordance with the action plan, but realise that, on moving premises, it would be better to change the way in
which that provision had been made. The original action plan may have been that someone would work on the ground floor. In a changed premises, there may be a possibility of installing a lift that would lead to a change. In that case, the person might want to agree a change to the plan, but to provide that the change would take effect only once the move was completed.
Mr. Boswell:
The Government are importing a welcome measure of flexibility into the provisions, which are already fairly flexible. We are pleased that they are moving the amendment. It means that we will not be tied to having everything done immediately. I imagine that it would be possible to contrive to overcome that problem by providing that the variation should be agreed and come into effect on the day on which it was necessary, but then one could have a series of rather complicated provisions leading to a series of variation orders or agreements. So it is probably sensible to proceed as the Government are doing.
The only point on which I seek assurance is that there is no scope for monkey business and non-compliance with the action plan. If the instruction is that the thing should take immediate effect, that is fairly easily pursued, judged and, if necessary, proceeded on. If some date in the future is stipulated, especially if it relates to a contingent event that may not be easy to define, such as "the day I finish moving house", which may not even be easy for a court to determine, the situation will be a little vague. I hope that that can be overcome. I do not think that it is an objection to proceeding with the amendment.
Ms Hodge:
There is absolutely no intention of using the amendment to weaken the facilities in the Bill to eliminate discrimination. I simply draw it to the hon. Gentleman's attention that it would require the agreement of all parties to vary the timing of implementation of the action plan.
Amendment agreed to.
Amendments made: No. 19, in page 20, line 37, leave out sub-paragraph (4).
No. 20, in page 21, line 6, leave out 'this sub-paragraph' and insert 'sub-paragraph (3)'.
No. 21, in page 21, line 9, leave out sub-paragraph (5).
No. 22, in page 21, line 37, leave out from beginning to 'with' in line 39 and insert--
No. 23, in page 21, line 43, after 'under' insert 'section 5(8) of or'.
No. 24, in page 22, line 6, leave out from 'sheriff' to end of line 7 and insert
Order for Third Reading read.
The Minister for Employment, Welfare to Work and Equal Opportunities (Mr. Andrew Smith):
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
The debates on this Bill on Second Reading, on Report and in Committee have been good-spirited, as befits a thoroughly good measure. The standing of the commission will be all the stronger and its work all the more effective for the breadth and depth of support now being expressed for its establishment.
The consensus behind the commission is such that I have no need to detain the House with a prolonged speech. I should just like to say that securing this commission is a great tribute to all those who have campaigned long and hard to bring it about. A debt of thanks is owed to the people involved from disability organisations and in the general public, to many Members of this House and another place, to the disability rights task force and to the all-party disablement group. It can be a bit invidious to single out names, but I know that the House would want to join me in voicing particular thanks for the pioneering work of Jack Ashley and Alf Morris, which comes to fruition today in this Bill.
I should also like to thank all hon. Members who served on the Standing Committee, and the Opposition parties for their constructive contribution. This was a very good Bill when it started its passage through the House, and it is an even better Bill now. I should also like to thank the civil servants, the parliamentary officials--and Hansard staff and the police--and all who have worked on the Bill's proceedings. It is all the better for their invaluable input.
May I say a particular thank you to my hon. Friend the Member for Newport, East (Mr. Howarth), who put a lot of work into getting this Bill under way, and to my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary, who has thrown herself body and soul into seeing the Bill through so successfully in a good spirit of partnership with disability organisations and others.
We will now at last have a proper independent body to help disabled people to secure their rights. Together with the work of the disability rights task force, the extension of the Disability Discrimination Act 1995, the new deal for disabled people, the disabled persons tax credit and income guarantee and the hearts and minds campaign, this measure marks decisive progress towards comprehensive civil rights for disabled people.
Mr. Boswell:
The Minister moved Third Reading in a broad and generous spirit. He has expressed thanks to almost all parties, and rightly so. I shall not repeat those thanks, not because I do not share his sentiments but because they have already been expressed. He injected the minimum of partisanship. That is proper because although we may have had our differences in the past on some disability issues, we have now all come together on this measure. It is right that occasionally in this place we find ourselves all on the same side, just as it is entirely right that on other occasions we vigorously debate matters of political tension and hardship. I think that we have found the right balance in this instance, and it respects the circumstances of the case.
I shall not repeat those thanks; I shall merely refer to my diffidence, in that it is almost unprecedented for me to have my first outing on a Bill on Report when others have done all the spadework. However, I believe that even in these short contributions I have reinforced the attitude that we have taken on these matters.
As for how the Bill will work, we have obtained useful assurances and, as the Minister rightly said, the Bill has been improved in response to points made by hon. Members from both sides of the House. The first matter that should concern people is whether the commission will have sufficient resources to do its job. We shall have to see whether there is a sudden flood of cases that have been pent up and not adequately developed. I hope that they can be managed, and that the commission will have the right resources to keep that under review.
The second major concern will be the way in which the commission approaches consultation with the service provider and the business interests that my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Mr. Leigh) mentioned in several interventions. The Under-Secretary referred to the need for maximum discussion to achieve positive results without cracking the legislative whip. I am sure that that is the right general approach, and I am relieved that that view is shared across the House.
It would be unfortunate if this measure were seen not as a matter of civil rights--I do not dissent from that view--but as a fruitful vehicle for contention and litigation whenever possible. The moral should be to improve awareness and consciousness, to move on to good practice and--if necessary--prescription, and to introduce the big stick only when absolutely necessary and when there is recalcitrance. I do not wish to take away the obligations of employers or service providers, but they should have a chance to behave reasonably. My strong hope and belief is that most of them, given that opportunity, will want to manage their affairs in such a way as to be helpful to the interests of persons with disabilities.
My concluding remarks will be addressed to people with disabilities as they look forward to their new rights. It is important that we do not oversell what we have achieved in the Bill. That is in no sense to diminish its importance or the fact that we have reached agreement on it, but it does not, by itself, remove discrimination and
deal with entrenched attitudes and insensitivity. Perhaps no one could legislate to deal with those problems effectively. We must do what we can in legislation, but we should realise that litigation is a difficult process, and for persons with disabilities it is even more stressful.
Having just come to this issue, I was struck by the survey carried out by the university of Sussex for the Institute for Employment Studies, which examined the cases brought during the first 19 months under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995. It interviewed 180 parties and 40 lawyers in 92 cases, and found that the process was daunting and that the problems for disabled people of being in court were enormous. That is undoubtedly true. The assistance of the commission may help to support some of these cases appropriately.
'(1) This paragraph applies to any order made by a county court or the sheriff under section 5(8) or under any provision of this Schedule.
(2) Section 55 of the County Courts Act 1984 (penalty for failure to give evidence) shall have effect in relation to a failure to comply with an order made by a county court to which this paragraph applies'.
'to which this paragraph applies'.
No. 25, in page 22, line 14, at end insert--
'(3) If the Commission applies to a county court or, in Scotland, to the sheriff to enforce an order to which this paragraph applies, the court may modify the order.'.--[Mr. Jamieson.]
5.48 pm
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