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1.44 pm
Mr. Tony McNulty (Harrow, East): In many ways, much of the debate today has been mature, reflective and grown-up which, given the usual debate on drugs, certainly in the British media, is rare. All those who have contributed should be congratulated on that.
There are several different thematic ways in which to address the problem of drugs. The first is education, which hon. Members have pooh-poohed rather too much today. There is a serious role for drugs education; it is not a panacea, as has been suggested. The second is containment, with all its incumbent difficulties. The third is the possibly foolish goal of eradication, which is unlikely--not least for tobacco addicts like me; I should have declared that interest at the start of my speech. We might eradicate some drugs, but certainly not all of them. The fourth is treatment. Much has been said about that, but more needs to be said about the substance of treatment, instead of what happens. The fifth is prevention, which is partly included in education. Finally, there is law enforcement.
I commend the exceptionally good speech made bymy hon. Friend the Member for Wellingborough (Mr. Stinchcombe) about the role of drugs inside prisons. From what he said, and from what we already know, it seems that if law enforcement works as a containment by putting the perpetrators of the drug trade behind bars, all we have done is to shift the marketplace. All that has happened is that people in custody, who were previously drug-free, are now queueing up in that marketplace.
As my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes, North-East (Mr. White) said, it is crucial that all institutions, agencies and sectors of society should work together. As he pointed out, the problem is not confined to the barren, windswept, poverty-stricken estates that
surround northern cities, or which exist in many parts of London. Drugs are not confined to deprived or working-class areas; they are found throughout society--as various marquesses could tell us, according to the newspaper accounts.
I should like to be able to say that, in an upper-working-class and middle-class constituency such as Harrow, East, we do not have a problem. We do. It might be a relatively small and more containable problem compared with those in other areas, but it exists and--like the problem everywhere else--it is growing. Furthermore, like everywhere else, there is a palpable shift from the use of what are mistakenly called soft drugs to the use of harder drugs. In London, the problem is not necessarily the leap from cannabis to heroin, but the more insidious leap to crack cocaine and cocaine in general. We are not talking about this in the fashionable, trendy, middle-class sense, in which a person is not someone at a party and part of the in-crowd unless a lump of white powder is hanging from his nose. Crack cocaine now causes as much difficulty in London as heroin.
It is estimated that three quarters of all drugs coming into this country touch London. Many pass on to other parts of the country, but London is the initial beacon for drug trafficking. In that context, what can we do? I will touch briefly on the points made by other hon. Members about what I understood to be community capacity building--trying to sort out all the elements that would ensure that drugs are not an alternative. That is a lovely, flowery phrase, but it does mean something. It means giving communities the capacity to grow and enrich their local civic culture in many ways, including economic development. That will help.
At the other end of the scale, all Governments--this is not a partisan point--have at least attempted to use international development measures to try to wean some countries off their mono-crop cultures of coca, cannabis or the heroin poppy. I hate the word globalisation; it is flawed intellectually and in other ways. However, drugs are a global problem, and must be tackled globally. It is not enough to say that some little canton in Switzerland has sorted out the problem, or that Holland has sorted it out, and that prohibition is the difficulty. That is nonsense. I say that with the greatest respect to my hon. Friends the Members for Newport, West (Mr. Flynn), who is no longer in the Chamber, and for Bolton, South-East (Dr. Iddon).
By removing prohibition, we only shift the scale and focus of the problems; we do not get rid of the problems altogether. The rudimentary law of economics dictates that somehow or other, much of the illicit trade--the pyramids referred to by my hon. Friend the Member for Newport, West--will remain. Drug barons up and down the land are not waiting desperately for the legitimation of a VAT registration number.
I am not trying to attack my hon. Friends the Members for Bolton, South-East and for Newport, West--drugs are a worthy subject of debate and dialogue, and I do not like the notion that that can take place only within extremely narrow confines. I fundamentally disagree with my hon. Friends, but I value their contributions. Even though they are completely and utterly wrong, if prohibition was working, we would not have to consider the alternatives to prohibition that they have suggested. We have to ask why prohibition is not working.
I am happy that the Government's strategy on drugs is based on prohibition, but many other elements are needed. We have to work in prisons, and work to achieve economic regeneration and development. I am happy, too, that today's debate has not been partisan, because if there is one subject among all those that we discuss that should not have party politics dragged into it, it is drugs. The drugs problem affects all parts of our society and all constituencies.
I dearly wish that the media took a grown-up view of drugs, not only in their reporting of drugs issues, but in terms of wider celebrity issues. Perhaps I am a harsh man, but I cannot understand why anyone should entertain the views of a man like Will Self and treat him like a serious journalist after the revelation that he had snorted heroin in the previous Prime Minister's aeroplane. Why should anyone take the man seriously? Why take a man like Robbie Fowler seriously, when he thinks that it is hilarious to imitate snorting cocaine on a football pitch? Why draw attention to pop stars who say that taking drugs is like having a cup of tea?
Because of their celebrity, those people have serious responsibilities, but the days when celebrities took those responsibilities seriously seems to be long past. Those who treat drugs as a fashion accessory are to be deprecated and dismissed as charlatans. The next time someone on television treats Will Self like a serious commentator, I shall write to that person and I shall encourage others to do likewise. If that is harsh, so be it.
The issue is not that all drugs equal crime. The issue is principally one of crime and socio-economic conditions rather than of health. By God, the health difficulties follow, but drugs are not primarily a health problem. Nor are we engaged in an elaborate game of cops and robbers. There are people who occupy professional positions in offices who go home and stick something up their nose or inject it in their arm. We have to see the problem in the wider context.
Mrs. Eleanor Laing (Epping Forest):
It is a pleasure to reply to what has been a truly non-partisan debate, as the hon. Member for Harrow, East (Mr. McNulty) has just said. I think that is the first time that I have agreed with the hon. Gentleman, but it is a pleasure to do so on this occasion--he should not be concerned about that.
The underlying theme of today's debate--I am glad that we have had a reasonable amount of time in which to discuss this important issue in some depth--is that we are all concerned about drug misuse and we all want to eradicate drug abuse. Of that there is no doubt. I am certain that the small number of hon. Members present in the Chamber does not reflect the level of concern among hon. Members on both sides of the House about that issue.
It simply happens to be a busy Friday. I can understand why the Minister, some of my hon. Friends and some hon. Members have had to leave before the end of the debate.
I have travelled around the country in recent months, and I found that, at almost every public meeting, when people were asked about their main concerns and what they would like the Government to address, the problem of drug abuse came very near the top of the list. That has certainly drawn my attention to the fact--I find myself agreeing with the hon. Member for Harrow, East twice in five minutes--that the drug problem affects every part of the country. It is not an inner-city problem or a problem peculiar to the north, the south or anywhere else. Drug misuse affects the whole of our country, and indeed the whole of Europe and the world. Therefore, it is good that we have debated the issue sincerely today and that the different points of view expressed have made it a constructive debate.
We have almost reached a consensus, first, that we must tackle both supply and demand; and, secondly, that the illegality of drugs is a deterrent to drug taking. I know that some hon. Members disagree with the latter point. We must consider prevention and cure and supply and demand. The drug problem is one of the most difficult to combat. It has arisen partly because of fashion and peer pressure and partly because of the recklessness of youth.
We all know that young people must rebel--it is part of their make-up--and, in some cases, that rebellion assumes the form of drug taking. People rebel in many different ways. Some rebel only when they are young and then settle down, and some continue to rebel for ever. Whatever form rebellion takes, the wish to be seen as different and to go against the instructions of others is part of being young. Everyone must go through that stage: we cannot ignore it. Somehow or other, Government policies must go with that trend and use it.
I welcome the Minister's commitment at the beginning of the debate not to legalise any drugs and to keep his policies under review. He said that the Government would watch carefully what is working and what is not; that they would not stick doggedly to previous statements, but would be willing to change policy if it appeared that other measures would work better.
I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Mrs. Winterton) on her thoughtful and far-reaching introduction to this debate. She covered so many serious matters in such depth and demonstrated such knowledge of her subject that I will not touch on those points again. I am sure that the whole House welcomed her contribution as constructive and not merely critical of the Minister's opening remarks.
The hon. Member for Erewash (Liz Blackman) raised practical points, including the idea that we should encourage police involvement in DARE programmes in schools. I wonder what the Under-Secretary will say to that when he replies to the debate.
My hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (Mrs. Lait) made a constructive, thoughtful contribution. She apologised for having to leave before the end of the debate. I am sure that the House will agree that she is to be admired for her constant crusade against tobacco and alcohol smuggling. Many of the problems that we face in that respect are the same as those caused by drug smuggling.
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