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Mr. Luff: For the record, I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. That was not my estimate; I was relying on the vaguest estimate that we have from the Government, which is in the notes on clauses. The amount could be hundreds of millions of pounds.
Mr. Swayne: I thank my hon. Friend for that clarification. That begs the question: on what might those amounts, whatever they might be, be spent? The clause states that Customs and Excise may incur expenditure
- "to exercise their functions relating to taxes and duties (including agricultural levies of the European Community)."
I will listen with interest to the Economic Secretary when she tells us precisely how she anticipates these funds will be spent. I hope that she will do so when she gets up to tell us that she will accept the amendments. Any reticence on her part, or any decision not to accept the amendments, will only reinforce the sense of suspicion and concern that something is being stitched up behind people's backs in precisely the same way as in 1975, when the people were duped, and one campaign, the "Britain in Europe" campaign, outspent the "No" campaign by 10:1.
I am sorry that the hon. Member for Croydon, Central (Mr. Davies) has left the Chamber. He asked in what way the amendments provided any control over expenditure. In one sense, he was right: they do not give us the ability to control expenditure--which, if I may say so to the Economic Secretary, is a good reason why she should accept the amendments. They do not give us the ability to control whatever it is that she wishes to spend on whatever it is that she wishes to spend it on. They merely give us the right to know what she has spent and what she has spent it on, which would at least provide some constraint on the expenditure.
Not only do we not know what will be spent and what it will be spent on, but we do not know for how long it might be spent. I suggest that it could be a very long time indeed. The Government have made it clear that the event that the expenditures are designed to achieve--the abolition of the pound--cannot happen until there is sustained convergence.
I did not agree with the suggestion of the hon. Member for Twickenham (Dr. Cable) that convergence had already taken place and that the British economy had moved closer to the European economies in the late 1980s. If the British economy is moving in an orbit around the European economies, it is an elliptical orbit, because it would appear that over the past 25 years it has diverged rather than converged.
The key question is: what has caused that? I suggest that the principal cause is the volume of British trade that takes place with the United States and elsewhere and the consequentially large volume of assets and asset income. Because of those long-term changes, it is highly unlikely that the Government's timetable will be realised. The time scale for the expenditure is in fact very long, so it is highly pertinent for us to have the scrutiny that the amendments offer, which would preserve Parliament's ability to hold the Government to account.
Mr. Loughton:
Conservative Members have made some powerful points. It was clear that the debate was not going the Government's way when the hon. Member for Croydon, Central (Mr. Davies) was summoned away by pager and the right hon. Member for Hartlepool (Mr. Mandelson) wafted in. I fear, though, that the heat has been too intense even for him and he has slunk away because even he knows that it is a losing battle. He has gone off, officially or unofficially, to represent the No. 10 view with yet another anonymous foreign diplomat.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Fareham(Sir P. Lloyd) put his finger on it: the debate is not about whether and when we want to join the euro or what
damage or good it may do to the economies here or in Europe, but about transparency and democratic accountability.
Today, the Economic Secretary has been in Committee debating the Financial Services and Markets Bill, which is all about accountability, cost to consumers and industry and the guarantee that we are seeking that everything will be up front, which I hope the Government will go along with. This afternoon, the Secretary of State for Health said that of course all the costs of his new-fangled health plan would be made public--so it is ironic that this evening, on an open-ended and potentially enormous issue, the Government are asking for our authority for an entirely blank cheque. As my right hon. Friend the shadow Chancellor said, that cocks a snook at the whole democratic process.
It was only on 23 February that the Prime Minister--uncharacteristically--came to the House and devoted all of 67 minutes to announcing the changeover plan and answering questions on it. That has been the House's sole opportunity to question a member of Her Majesty's Government on the changeover plan. Attempts to secure other appearances have been evaded and wafted aside. Yet within a month of that statement, the Bill was published, with this provision hidden deep among the latter clauses. It gives the Government the most enormous blank cheque which, as my hon. Friend the Member for New Forest, West (Mr. Swayne) said, is not even time dated.
I am not in the business of writing blank cheques. No Conservative Member is. When I receive a tax bill from the Inland Revenue I expect to pay the amount stipulated at the bottom. I do not expect to pay an amount that may be thousands--or even tens--of pounds more. Similarly, when I get my council tax bill I expect to pay the amount stated, not some amount that may be much higher, of which I may--or may not--be informed at a later date, for added expenditure whose details may--or may not--be revealed.
It is ironic that the Government should go on about all their proposals being fully costed. They have done so since before the election. They constantly go on about measures that will be paid for by taxation elsewhere.
Earlier this afternoon, the Economic Secretary used a well-worn phrase when she spoke about the "black hole" that would be left by Opposition proposals, but this clause makes a black hole look like a vicarage tea party. The Government should never again have the temerity to ask Conservative Members how much our amendments to legislation might cost. That remark displayed nerve beyond belief.
The clause is about the inevitability of gradualism, by means of which Britain will be driven into the euro behind everyone's back. It is about membership of the euro by stealth. If the Government stick to their promise of holding a referendum on the matter, the balance of probabilities is that the British public will vote resolutely against entry into the euro. That was true a year ago and remains true now. It will still be true in two years, and in the dim and distant future.
The latest opinion poll showed opposition at a record level, with more than two thirds of the public against joining the euro. The Governor of the Bank of England has said that going into the euro would be the most
enormous leap of faith. Just two weeks ago, the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, on his not terribly successful visit to China, admitted that Britain's economy was large enough to merit having its own currency. So why are the Government asking for funds to go completely against that statement of fact?
The Government's policy ignores the fact that 80 per cent. of the world's financial trade, and 60 per cent. of commercial trade, is transacted in dollars. So what are the Government doing about preparing to ensure the stability of the dollar? That is a far more important currency for our financial and commercial markets, and is likely to remain so for some years, but the Government are doing nothing to ensure its stability.
What are the Government doing to plan for what the hon. Member for Croydon, Central (Mr. Davies) called the contingencies of a no vote in a referendum? Everything is geared to a yes vote being secured. Nothing is being done to prepare for a no vote, or to protect our more important trade conducted in dollars.
Mr. Bercow:
Does my hon. Friend agree that, unless our amendments are passed, the situation will be perilous indeed? The president of the Bundesbank has said that within a single European currency it is an illusion to think that member states can retain their autonomy over taxation policy, but the Government have always rejected that view. Does not my hon. Friend think it peculiar that clause 122 provides for the exercise of functions relating to taxes attendant on entry to European monetary union, when previously the Government have insisted that the prospect of income tax control through EMU wasa nonsense? Is there not a contradiction in the Government's position? Have the Government not slipped out the truth, so to speak, by stealth?
Mr. Loughton:
My hon. Friend puts his finger precisely on the point. So great, in fact, is the emergency before us that the Chancellor has joined us for the first time tonight. The right hon. Member for Hartlepool plainly pressed all the panic buttons when he left the Chamber.
8.45 pm
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