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The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr. Michael Lord): With this, it will be convenient to discuss the following: Amendment No. 37, in page 1, line 19, leave out
', except as provided by section 3,'.
Amendment No. 9, in page 1, line 23, after second 'Minister' insert
Amendment No. 14, in page 2, leave out lines 8 to 10.
Amendment No. 15, in page 2, line 8, after 'practicable' insert
Amendment No. 16, in page 2, line 9, leave out from 'shall' to end of line 10 and insert
Amendment No. 17, in page 2, line 9, leave out 'take steps to'.
Amendment No. 18, in page 2, line 10, at end insert
Amendment No. 38, in clause 2, page 2, line 32, leave out subsection (2).
Amendment No. 19, in, page 2, line 33, leave out from 'account' to end of line 34 and insert
Amendment No. 20, in clause 3, page 3, line 8, leave out from 'call' to end of line 9 and insert
Amendment No. 21, in page 3, leave out lines 10 to 19 and insert--
Amendment No. 22, in page 3, line 11, leave out from 'debate' to end of line 15 and insert
Amendment No. 34, in page 3, line 11, leave out 'but not' and insert 'and, if it chooses,'.
Amendment No. 23, in page 3, line 15, at end insert--
Amendment No. 24, in page 3, line 16, leave out subsection (3) and insert--
Amendment No. 35, in page 3, line 18, after 'and' insert 'if it chooses'.
Clause 3 stand part.
Amendment No. 28, in schedule 1, page 8, line 11, at end insert--
New clause 3--Review process--
Mr. MacKay:
As I said on Second Reading, we believe that the Prime Minister promised--outside Castle buildings, Stormont; in The Sunday Times article; and in his statement last week to the House--several failsafes that, mysteriously and sadly, do not appear in the legislation, therefore making the Bill incomplete. The failsafes--as the Prime Minister likes to call them; or the copper-bottomed safeguards, as I should prefer to call them--are just not in the Bill.
This final set of amendments, which we believe would create a copper-bottomed failsafe, is based on a simple premise. The Bill currently provides--I cannot believe that the Minister believes that it should do so--that, if any paramilitary organisation, whether loyalist or republican, fails to meet its decommissioning obligations under General de Chastelain's timetable--when he eventually publishes it--the penalty will be a suspension of both the Executive and the Assembly.
Mr. Ian Taylor (Esher and Walton):
Is my right hon. Friend implying that, if the decommissioning body decided that one side or another had breached the terms, the whole process would rewind, rather than continue? I believed that the Prime Minister had indicated in his statement to the House after the Belfast talks that the process would continue without the offending party.
Mr. MacKay:
Like my hon. Friend, I was here in the House when the Prime Minister made his statement a week last Monday. I recall that the Prime Minister said categorically that only those who had breached the decommissioning timetable would be penalised. To give
Under the amendment, if the Provisional IRA failed to decommission within the timetable and failed to fulfil its obligations, Sinn Fein would be immediately excluded from the Executive. However, the Executive would remain in place and, after a reasonable period, the d'Hondt formula would be triggered again so that there would be two new Ministers replacing the two excluded Sinn Fein Ministers.
That way, there would be a continued devolved Administration and Executive in the Province, and all the constitutional parties--who will have fulfilled their obligations--would not be penalised. Surely that is the right way forward, and it is the copper-bottomed safeguard that Unionists and others require to ensure that they can go safely into an Executive with Sinn Fein Ministers, knowing either that the Provisional IRA will decommission its illegally held arms and explosives quickly or that Sinn Fein will be removed from the Executive. They will not be in the invidious position of having to share ministerial responsibility with men of violence who are retaining a fully armed paramilitary organisation.
If the Minister of State wants the process to succeed--and if, as I know that he does, he wants a lasting devolved Administration for Northern Ireland with the most inclusive ministerial team possible under the d'Hondt formula--it is essential that he accepts the amendment. Then, Unionists and others would have a copper-bottomed guarantee that, by taking ministerial appointmentsahead of decommissioning, there will be either decommissioning or the expulsion of Sinn Fein from the Executive. It is simple, straightforward and right and, at this late hour, I plead with the Minister to accept the amendment.
Mr. Mallon:
I went to some lengths on Second Reading to state that the review was the only way within the agreement under which, in accord with the agreement, an examination could be made of the reasons why a default was made by anyone who had contravened the commitment given in terms of either decommissioning or the non-working of devolution. I do not wish to repeat what I said then, but it is essential to point out that, if we are going to be consistent with the agreement, that review must be in place, and no other mechanism must be used until a mechanism is decided at that review.
If we do not have a suspension, we might end up in the anomalous situation in which Ministers whose party was under consideration in the review for having reneged or defaulted participated in that review as acting Ministers. Is that the situation that we want?
I do not want to see the suspension of institutions that I have helped in some small way to set up. I do not want to see any blockage in the working of the new Executive, which I hope will be set up this week, but I want to try to preserve the agreement, above all else, because it transcends any Opposition party position, or any Unionist position, or any position that might be adopted by us, this Government or the Irish Government. It supersedes all those considerations and that is why I believe that we must act in accord with the review, to be at one with the agreement.
The purpose of new clause 3 is simple. It is to ensure that the Bill before us accurately implements "The Way Forward" document that was decided by the two Prime Ministers. Paragraph 5 of that document provides that,if the commitments in relation to devolution or decommissioning are not met, the Governments will
The Bill provides that functions in relation to the North-South Ministerial Council and the new British-Irish Council shall not be exercisable. That means that the Councils cannot convene or operate. By contrast,clause 3 provides that the Assembly not only can but must convene and operate, so we are faced with an illogical absurdity. On the one hand, the Bill suspends the Assembly and on the other it requires it to meet twice while in suspension.
The first of those meetings is to be held within seven days to debate the situation that led to the suspension order and the review. Can one imagine what purpose that debate would serve? Would it have an adverse effect on the subsequent review? Would it encourage posturing and increased rancour? Would it divert the parties from what must be their essential task at that time--to work constructively within the review? I believe that it would have a tremendously detrimental effect. One can imagine the rancour that could be generated in such a debate.
The debate would have no ending, because there would be no vote. It would carry no responsibilities, because the Assembly would be suspended even though it was required to meet by order of the Secretary of State. The Bill provides that the second time that the Assembly meets must be before the suspension period has ended, to debate and vote on any action proposed to be taken in consequence of the review. If an institution is to be suspended, is it not ridiculous for it to meet and vote during its suspension? All that is necessary is that, after the suspension period, the Assembly should meet to implement the conclusions of the review. Any meeting of the Assembly during a suspension period would contradict the terms of the document "The Way Forward", laid down by the two Prime Ministers at the end of the most recent negotiations.
The amendments make it clear that the Assembly should not meet during the review. Only after the review has been concluded should the Assembly meet to debate and vote on measures then within its competence. If the amendments were accepted, the Bill would then be in accordance with "The Way Forward" document and with the agreement.
That is the only way in which all the institutions established by the Good Friday agreement can be treated on an equal basis, as the agreement requires. The proposals in the Bill would favour the Assembly over all other institutions in a way that would be remarkably detrimental to debates and to the taking of decisions that are outside its competence in terms of the review. New clause 3 would bring the Bill back to the terms of the Good Friday agreement and the document "The Way Forward". I hope that the two Governments will consider it carefully.
'under sections 18 and 19 of the 1998 Act other than in accordance with section 3;'.
'but no later than 7 days'.
'serve notice on the Presiding Officer requiring him to move a motion for resolution under section 30(2) of the Northern Ireland Act 1998.'.
'within four weeks of a suspension order being made.'.
'the proceedings of the Assembly under section 3;'.
'a meeting of the Assembly within 7 days of the making of the suspension order and such further meetings as he considers appropriate.'.
'(2) Unless the Assembly resolves otherwise on a cross-community basis, a party in respect of which the Decommissioning Commission has reported under section 1 shall be disregarded for the purposes of subsections (4) to (6) of section 4 as if that party had been the subject of a resolution of the Assembly under section 30(2) of the 1998 Act.'.
'a motion for resolution under section 30(2) of the Northern Ireland Act 1998.
(2A) In the event of a resolution under section 30(2) the Secretary of State shall implement the requirements under section 18(2) of the Northern Ireland Act 1998.'.
'(3) The review shall take no longer than three months.'.
'(3) Following the implementation of section 18(2) the second meeting shall be held within 7 days and at that meeting the Assembly shall debate any action proposed to be taken in consequence of that implementation.'.
'4A.--(1) During a suspension period the Secretary of State may by notice served on the Presiding Officer authorise the Assembly to meet at such times and to conduct such business as may be specified in the notice.
(2) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (1) the Assembly Standing Orders shall have effect subject to such modifications as may be specified in the notice.'.
'Within seven days of the conclusion of the review conducted under the Validation, Implementation and Review section of the Belfast Agreement, the Secretary of State shall call a meeting of the Assembly for the purpose of giving effect to any action within its competence which may have been agreed within the review.'.
"automatically, and with immediate effect, suspend the operation of the institutions set up by the Agreement."
Suspension must therefore apply to all institutions in the same way. The Bill fails to achieve that.
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