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10.25 am
Mr. David Amess (Southend, West): I seem to have won the booby prize in this debate, as my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth, East (Mr. Atkinson) is a very great friend of mine. We did not compare notes beforehand, and it is clear that our views are rather different. However, I recognise that he is an expert on the question of human rights, and I shall certainly not dismiss what he has said.
I congratulate the hon. Member for Birmingham, Hall Green (Mr. McCabe) on securing this debate. I offer him my sincere praise for his splendid and brave speech, and I agree with every word that he uttered. I also thoughtthat the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Mr. Corbett) made a splendid speech: he and I had the privilege some weeks ago of addressing a conference on these matters.
I do not want to get involved in the politics of the matter, but the new Labour Government flagged up--in a most immodest way--the notion that their foreign policy would be different from that conducted in the 18 dreadful years of Conservative Government. The new Government said that they would adopt an ethical foreign policy, and although the Minister of State is fairly new to his job and may make some barbed comments about policies that I have supported, I seek from him a defence of the Government's approach.
The hon. Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell) disputed the suppression of women in Iran, but how can the Government's foreign policy be considered ethical in the light of what it condones in Iran? We are approaching the millennium, but in the four years of President Khatami's rule there have been 420 executions and 10 public stonings. Women are suppressed and religious minorities persecuted. There have been 47 political killings, in Iran and abroad. In crackdowns on Tehran university students, several have been killed and thousands wounded, while 1,000 have been arrested. In the past month, the number of fingers cut off men amounted to 21.
What has any of that disgraceful story got to do with the Government's ethical foreign policy? I am sure that the Minister of State will argue that the new regime should be encouraged, as my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth, East suggested, but I do not accept that.
I hope that the Minister will explain why the Labour party has changed its view on the matter. There is no dispute that the Labour party formerly practically recognised the National Council of Resistance as the democratic alternative to the clerical regime. In 1984, the NCRI's representatives were official guests of the Labour party. The council's president, Massoud Rajavi, visited the UK at the invitation of the then leader of the Labour party, Mr. Neil Kinnock. In 1985, Mrs. Rajavi was officially invited to the Labour party conference, where the Labour leader declared the party's support for the NCRI, and specifically lauded Mrs. Rajavi's efforts towards the establishment of democracy. That cannot be disputed. It happened, and although there was a huge intake of new Labour Members at the general election, many of those involved in those events are still Members.
Relations continued until 1997; that, too, is indisputable, because the Labour conference adopted a resolution that condemned the Iranian regime and Khatami and supported the Iranian people's resistance. The Foreign Secretary was in the chair when the resolution was discussed, and it was later endorsed by Labour's national executive committee. Given the Government's style, I cannot believe that they had not carefully thought through what the NCRI was all about. The Foreign Secretary, at least, must have known.
What has changed since Labour came to power? I am puzzled. I am perhaps lowering the tone of the debate by saying all this--
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr. Geoffrey Hoon)
indicated assent.
Mr. Amess:
The Minister seems to think so, but why should I not lower the tone? The Labour Government support an ethical foreign policy, but there is nothing ethical about events in Iran over the past four years, and nor is Labour's change of policy ethical.
We are told how splendid it is that political parties, including the Servants of Construction and the Islamic Iran Participation party, were licensed in 1998. But my research shows that those parties are factions of the ruling regime. To wheel them out as examples of improved democracy is a load of garbage. We are told that the Islamic Council's elections are a sign of change in Iran. The Government peddle the official line that the first local elections are due this month to put power in the hands of the people. But there is plenty of evidence to confirm that the elections are not free, and they cannot be construed as restoring freedom or transferring power to the people.
I fully accept all that my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth, East said, and he and I may discuss these matters privately. However, regardless of what hon. Members may wish, the situation on the ground demonstrates that the Iranian Government are unstable. The hon. Member for Hall Green did not know when he asked for this debate that the current events would be happening in Iran, and he has given the Minister a wonderful opportunity to put his feelings on the record. It would be a mistake to believe that our support for Khatami will save or moderate the Iranian regime. That approach would merely tarnish our relations with the Iranian people and drive them towards more anti-western radicalism.
Mrs. Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham):
I congratulate the hon. Member for Birmingham, Hall Green (Mr. McCabe) on obtaining this debate. He speaks from the heart, and I can take something from his speech, and from all the others that we have heard, even if I do not agree with all that has been said. The hon. Gentleman has given the Minister of State a golden opportunity to set out the Government's attitude to current events in Iran. On the press wires this morning, I read that the United States of America has called on the Iranian Government to protect the student demonstrators against repression, and I hope the Minister can tell us what action our Government are taking in response to the alarming reports and frightening pictures of the past 48 hours.
My hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet (Sir S. Chapman) spoke briefly but powerfully about Iran Aid, the charity based in his constituency which helps children. The attempt to discredit it is well known, and I
hope that the Minister will tell us what he knows about that. The hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Mr. Corbett) also spoke forcefully about what he sees as a lack of progress in Iran, particularly the retrograde step of legislating to curb the press that has resulted from recent events. Will the Minister comment on our Government's attitude towards that legislation?
The hon. Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell) makes a measured and thoughtful speech in every debate in which he participates. He speaks from great personal experience; unlike him, I have not travelled to Iran. I always listen carefully to him, but he and I must part company on the subject of women. I had some ministerial responsibility for women during the previous Government, and I know from my extensive reading that the treatment of women in Iran is reprehensible. Adultery is still punished by stoning. In a court of law, the testimony of a man is automatically taken over that of a woman. It takes two women to challenge the statement of a man. That cannot be right in a modern society in the modern world.
I should like to know whether in his visits to Iran the hon. Gentleman saw separate entrances for men and women to government institutions, universities and airports. Women are often searched for cosmetics, and it would be interesting to hear whether the hon. Gentleman can confirm what I have read. If those things happen, they must be condemned out of hand. I could give many more examples.
Unlike some hon. Members, I believe that there is much reason for hope in Iran. Two years after his election victory, President Khatami has indicated that he would like to move towards the tolerance and political liberalisation which could form the bedrock for transition to an Islamic democracy. There is much room for progress, although the hon. Member for Linlithgow was right to say that women have moved into senior managerial positions and that the doors have been opened a little, if not yet enough. That is a glimmer of hope.
The United Kingdom has improved its bilateral relations with Iran, not least because of the progress made in the holding of elections and in the regime's move from confrontation towards international tolerance and reconciliation. Relations with Saudi Arabia have been rebuilt, which amounts to a striking difference from the policy of previous regimes. The fatwa imposed on Salman Rushdie was a major stumbling block for the UK, but its lifting resulted, rightly, in a symbolic upgrading of diplomatic relations to ambassadorial level.
I would however like the Minister to comment on the points that hon. Members have raised about the fatwa on Salman Rushdie. President Khatami has certainly tried to change direction, not least because he recognises the need for foreign investment and the fact that it will not be forthcoming unless there is radical change. There has been some increase in press freedom, despite recent events, and certain powers have been decentralised in the President's attempt to reposition Iran both regionally and internationally.
Therefore, on the whole, I want to be optimistic; but I certainly do not want to be less than realistic about the barriers that still exist and which hon. Members have touched on today.
Iran has huge assets of oil, gas and other minerals, a reasonable education system and a significant business and industrial base. However, as the hon. Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell) said, Iran is a young nation. The population has doubled in 20 years and to improve the standard of living for Iranians will require some drastic economic reforms and ambitious targets.
There have been some moves towards privatisation--the buy-back contracts for oil and gas, for example--but the process is not far advanced and will certainly need to be progressed to attract investors. I want the Minister to tell us how he sees the economic future for Iran and the trading possibilities for this country with Iran.
Despite the progress that I have mentioned, there are still some dramatic questions about Iran, not least major human rights issues. An article by a journalist called Adam Indikt last week started with the recollection of a conversation that he had had with an Amnesty International worker. When he asked for the most recent report on human rights in Iran, the worker replied, "What human rights?"
One of the most prominent cases has been the arrest of the 13 Jews from Shiraz and Isfahan in southern Iran, who were accused of spying for the Zionist regime and world arrogance. I want to know what the Minister has done about those arrests. What representations has he made to the Iranian Government? Benjamin Netanyahu, in association with Prime Minister Barak, has contacted the Prime Minister on the issue, but I hope that the Minister will be able to tell us what progress our Government have made in making representations about the arrests, and whether the Prime Minister has made any representations to the President of Iran.
Obviously, there are questions concerning the outcome of any trial, but the Minister is on record as saying:
In my constituency I have a community of Bahais. The attitude of the Iranian authorities towards the Bahais is no secret. Hon. Members mentioned that today--not least my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth, East (Mr. Atkinson), who made an excellent speech that was both optimistic but critical and realistic, and my hon. Friend the Member for Southend, West (Mr. Amess). The Bahais are a gentle people. They do no harm to anyone. They are good people and yet they suffer the most amazing oppression and are harassed solely on religious grounds. Again, I hope that the Minister will tell us what progress he has made with representations on behalf of Bahais who are so concerned about their relations in Iran.
"Clearly, if they"--
those Jews--
"are . . . put on trial we and other members of the international community will be monitoring that trial very carefully."
If possible, I want the Minister to say today how he anticipates such monitoring taking place and how he will make strong representations on behalf of those detainees and their families, as he and the Prime Minister have been requested to do.
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