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City of London (Ward Elections) Bill
As amended in Committee, considered.
7.8 pm
Mr. John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington): On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I gave notice to Madam Speaker that I would raise this point of order, which relates to the point that I made on Second Reading. You will recall that I asked whether the Bill was compatible with section 19 of the Human Rights Act 1998, and whether legal advice had been sought and published.
We have debated the Northern Ireland Bill this week--it contains a clear statement by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland that it complies with the Human Rights Act 1998. I believe that a similar statement should be attached to all future legislation. Section 19 of the 1998 Act requires that the Minister
The issue to which I am referring is specifically in relation to the convention on the protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms as amended by protocol 11. Article 3 of that protocol, which is headed, "The Right to free elections", states:
We are now operating in a supra-national political and legal environment. Of course, we are governed by Parliament, which is sovereign, but it is no longer totally so in relation to that legislation. Therefore, I asked earlier at the Private Bill Office whether that legal advice was sought, whether the Lord Chancellor had given his opinion, and if so, what it was--should it be published or at least laid in the Vote Office or the Library?
In my view, if the House knowingly and wilfully proceeds to introduce legislation that is contrary to the convention, that is one thing. That is a decision of the House, individual Members promoting the Bill and Ministers who may support it. However, if hon. Members blunder into legislating contrary to the convention, without advice, it is a dereliction of duty on behalf of the Lord Chancellor or the Officers of the House in not affording us such advice. I would welcome your views, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst):
Order. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving notice of
Mr. McDonnell:
Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Can I clarify the matter? Is any hon. Member who seeks to promote legislation in debate in the House liable, therefore, to digress against the convention on human rights, which we have incorporated in legislation? If we enact this legislation--I hope that we do not because it contravenes everything that we stand for both in terms of human rights and party policies--does that mean that the City corporation, if it instigates some form of election under the legislation, is open to legal challenge? I would be grateful if, at some stage, in addition to the advice that you have provided, the Lord Chancellor could be consulted and we could have some advice on that matter, too.
Mr. Robert Jackson (Wantage):
Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. It might be relevant to report to the House that, as Chairman of the Select Committee that considered the Bill--we spent several days on it and heard petitioners--I can confirm that that issue was not raised by any of the petitioners and did not come before the Committee at any stage.
Mr. Deputy Speaker:
Order. The hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (Mr. McDonnell) does not do himself a service because he has illustrated that that is a matter for debate; it is not a matter on which the Chair can rule.
Mr. McDonnell:
Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Previously, I raised a point of order about declaration of interests. Under the heading, "Declaration of Members' Interests" in the code of conduct, the principle is clearly established that Members
We are debating legislation that would give companies and banks within the City of London the right to a vote and, therefore, the right to an interest within the City corporation. I do not believe that any hon. Member has so far declared any interest in relation to this matter. However, I cannot believe that there is no hon. Member or member of the Committee who does not hold some form of bank account or have some interest in a body that is located within the City of London.
I have a Co-operative bank account--there is not an awful lot in it, but I still have it. That bank is located within the City. That is an interest, because that company will now have a vote in the City corporation elections if the Bill is enacted.
Mr. Deputy Speaker:
Order. The position is clear. Any hon. Member who believes that he has in interest
Mr. McDonnell:
I beg to move amendment No. 7, in page 2, line 19, at end insert--
No. 16, in clause 3, page 3, line 12, leave out from 'greater' to end of line and insert--
No. 31, in clause 8, page 5, line 7, leave out 'appointed' and insert 'elected'.
No. 33, in schedule 1, page 6, line 7, leave out from 'scale:' to end of line 24 and insert--
"in charge of a Bill in either House of Parliament must, before Second Reading of the Bill"
make a statement about the compatibility of the Bill with the convention rights defined in section 1 of the Act. The Northern Ireland Bill states that the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has made the following statement:
"In my view the provisions of the Northern Ireland Bill are compatible with the Convention rights."
That seems to be the procedure for legislation as regards human rights. On Second Reading, Mr. Deputy Speaker, you suggested that this was a matter for the courts. I can appreciate that, but clearly individual Ministers or promoters of Bills must now ensure that they comply with the Human Rights Act.
"The High Contracting Parties"--
that is, the individual countries that have signed the convention--
"undertake to hold free elections at reasonable intervals by secret ballot, under conditions which will ensure the free expression of the opinion of the people in the choice of the legislature."
It does not refer to businesses.
"shall fulfil conscientiously the requirements of the House in respect of the registration of interests in the Register of Members' Interests".
Paragraph 5 of the code of conduct states clearly:
"The main purpose of declaration of interest is to ensure that fellow Members of the House and public are made aware, at the appropriate time when a Member is making a speech in the House or in Committee or participating in any other proceedings of the House, of any past, present or expected future pecuniary interest".
It also mentions miscellaneous interests.
7.15 pm
'"relevant employee" means a person whose principal or only place of work on the qualifying date is ordinarily the hereditament in respect of which the entitlement to appoint a voter arises and who works for that qualifying body.'.
Mr. Deputy Speaker:
With this, it will be convenient to take the following amendments: No. 13, in clause 3, page 2, line 42, leave out '£200' and insert '£1,000,000'.
'number of employees of the qualifying body.'.
No. 17, in clause 3, page 3, line 20, after 'values,', insert
'the number of relevant employees'.
No. 19, in clause 4, page 3, line 28, leave out from 'shall' to end of line 30 and insert--
'conduct a ballot of all relevant employees to elect its voter or voters.'.
No. 30, in clause 8, page 5, line 4, leave out 'appoint' and insert 'elect'.
| Number of Relevant Employees | Maximum Number of Persons whom that Body may Elect |
| Up to 1,000 | 1. |
| For every 1,000 over the first 1,000 | 1 for every thousand relevant employees |
No. 35, in schedule 1, page 6, line 28, leave out 'rateable value' and insert 'number of relevant employees'.
Mr. McDonnell:
On Second Reading, there was considerable dissatisfaction with the Bill. The Committee was established and petitioners petitioned against the Bill. There have been some minor amendments, but they are insignificant.
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