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Mr. McDonnell: The Minister raised the issue of consultation with those employees. My hon. Friend has

14 Jul 1999 : Column 503

alluded to that. In the previous debate, we proposed that, although there has been difficulty over consultation until now--the House has been constrained with regard to the Bill--if the amendment were passed, there would be a real opportunity for consultation. We could consult the City corporation, take the Bill to the other place and refer it back here, so that we could get the practicalities right.

Mr. Sawford: As, I think, the only member of the Committee who has sat through the whole debate, it is not being disloyal to the Committee to say that the amendments were not considered. I am sure that others on the Committee were not aware that such amendments were acceptable within the terms of the Bill. Having looked at the amendments and considered their implications, I believe that there is a serious democratic deficit within the workings of the City of London corporation. No hon. Member can deny that. No democrat elected to the House can deny that.

Mr. Dismore: I am sure that my hon. Friend has heard of the homes for votes scandal in the neighbouring Westminster city council, which gerrymandered elections. Is not what is proposed in the Bill--votes for business--an even greater affront to democracy?

Mr. Sawford: I thank my hon. Friend. I make no comment on the Westminster situation. I would rather concentrate on the issue that is before us this evening. My hon. Friend is right--it is capitalism gone mad. We now give votes to buildings. The bigger the building, the higher its rateable value, the more votes are obtained.

Mr. Brooke rose in his place and claimed to move, That the Question be now put.

Question put, That the Question be now put:--

The House divided: Ayes 218, Noes 101.

Division No. 242
[9.58 pm


Ainsworth, Peter (E Surrey)
Alexander, Douglas
Allen, Graham
Amess, David
Anderson, Janet (Rossendale)
Arbuthnot, Rt Hon James
Atherton, Ms Candy
Atkins, Charlotte
Atkinson, David (Bour'mth E)
Atkinson, Peter (Hexham)
Banks, Tony
Battle, John
Bayley, Hugh
Beard, Nigel
Beckett, Rt Hon Mrs Margaret
Beith, Rt Hon A J
Beresford, Sir Paul
Betts, Clive
Blunt, Crispin
Body, Sir Richard
Boswell, Tim
Bottomley, Peter (Worthing W)
Bottomley, Rt Hon Mrs Virginia
Bradley, Keith (Withington)
Brady, Graham
Brazier, Julian
Brinton, Mrs Helen
Brooke, Rt Hon Peter
Bruce, Ian (S Dorset)
Burgon, Colin
Caborn, Rt Hon Richard
Campbell-Savours, Dale
Casale, Roger
Chapman, Ben (Wirral S)
Chapman, Sir Sydney
(Chipping Barnet)
Chope, Christopher
Clappison, James
Clark, Dr Lynda
(Edinburgh Pentlands)
Clarke, Charles (Norwich S)
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coaker, Vernon
Coffey, Ms Ann
Collins, Tim
Colman, Tony
Cormack, Sir Patrick
Corston, Ms Jean
Cox, Tom
Crausby, David
Cunningham, Jim (Cov'try S)
Darling, Rt Hon Alistair
Davey, Valerie (Bristol W)
Davies, Quentin (Grantham)
Davis, Rt Hon David (Haltemprice)
Day, Stephen
Donohoe, Brian H
Dorrell, Rt Hon Stephen
Dowd, Jim
Drown, Ms Julia
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Ennis, Jeff
Faber, David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, Michael
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flight, Howard
Fraser, Christopher
Gale, Roger
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
Garnier, Edward
George, Bruce (Walsall S)
Gill, Christopher
Gillan, Mrs Cheryl
Gilroy, Mrs Linda
Gorman, Mrs Teresa
Gray, James
Green, Damian
Greenway, John
Grieve, Dominic
Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)
Hague, Rt Hon William
Hain, Peter
Hall, Mike (Weaver Vale)
Hamilton, Rt Hon Sir Archie
Hammond, Philip
Hanson, David
Heal, Mrs Sylvia
Healey, John
Heathcoat-Amory, Rt Hon David
Henderson, Doug (Newcastle N)
Heppell, John
Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael
Hill, Keith
Hodge, Ms Margaret
Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas
Howard, Rt Hon Michael
Howarth, Gerald (Aldershot)
Howells, Dr Kim
Hoyle, Lindsay
Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)
Humble, Mrs Joan
Hunter, Andrew
Hutton, John
Jack, Rt Hon Michael
Jackson, Ms Glenda (Hampstead)
Jackson, Robert (Wantage)
Jamieson, David
Jenkin, Bernard
Jenkins, Brian
Johnson, Alan (Hull W & Hessle)
Johnson, Miss Melanie
(Welwyn Hatfield)
Jones, Rt Hon Barry (Alyn)
Jones, Helen (Warrington N)
Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C)
Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S)
Jowell, Rt Hon Ms Tessa
Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald
Keeble, Ms Sally
Keen, Ann (Brentford & Isleworth)
Kelly, Ms Ruth
Khabra, Piara S
King, Andy (Rugby & Kenilworth)
King, Rt Hon Tom (Bridgwater)
Laing, Mrs Eleanor
Lait, Mrs Jacqui
Lansley, Andrew
Leigh, Edward
Letwin, Oliver
Lewis, Dr Julian (New Forest E)
Lidington, David
Lilley, Rt Hon Peter
Lloyd, Rt Hon Sir Peter (Fareham)
Lloyd, Tony (Manchester C)
Loughton, Tim
Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas
McAvoy, Thomas
McCafferty, Ms Chris
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McKenna, Mrs Rosemary
Maclean, Rt Hon David
McLoughlin, Patrick
McNulty, Tony
Mates, Michael
Maude, Rt Hon Francis
May, Mrs Theresa
Meale, Alan
Merron, Gillian
Michael, Rt Hon Alun
Milburn, Rt Hon Alan
Moffatt, Laura
Moonie, Dr Lewis
Moran, Ms Margaret
Morley, Elliot
Murphy, Jim (Eastwood)
Nicholls, Patrick
Norman, Archie
O'Brien, Bill (Normanton)
Olner, Bill
Osborne, Ms Sandra
Ottaway, Richard
Page, Richard
Paice, James
Pickles, Eric
Pollard, Kerry
Pond, Chris
Pope, Greg
Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lewisham E)
Primarolo, Dawn
Prior, David
Quinn, Lawrie
Randall, John
Raynsford, Nick
Reid, Rt Hon Dr John (Hamilton N)
Robathan, Andrew
Robertson, Laurence (Tewk'b'ry)
Roche, Mrs Barbara
Roy, Frank
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, Joan
Ruffley, David
St Aubyn, Nick
Simpson, Keith (Mid-Norfolk)
Singh, Marsha
Smith, Miss Geraldine
(Morecambe & Lunesdale)
Spellar, John
Spelman, Mrs Caroline
Spicer, Sir Michael
Squire, Ms Rachel
Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John
Stoate, Dr Howard
Streeter, Gary
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Gerry
Swayne, Desmond
Syms, Robert
Taylor, Rt Hon Mrs Ann
Taylor, Ms Dari (Stockton S)
Taylor, Ian (Esher & Walton)
Taylor, John M (Solihull)
Thomas, Gareth R (Harrow W)
Timms, Stephen
Touhig, Don
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Dr George (NW Norfolk)
Twigg, Derek (Halton)
Vaz, Keith
Walley, Ms Joan
Waterson, Nigel
Wells, Bowen
White, Brian
Whittingdale, John
Wicks, Malcolm
Widdecombe, Rt Hon Miss Ann
Wilkinson, John
Wilshire, David
Wilson, Brian
Winterton, Nicholas (Macclesfield)
Woodward, Shaun

Tellers for the Ayes:

Mr. Robert Walter and
Mr. Nick Hawkins.


Adams, Mrs Irene (Paisley N)
Ashton, Joe
Barnes, Harry
Bell, Martin (Tatton)
Benn, Rt Hon Tony (Chesterfield)
Bermingham, Gerald
Best, Harold
Bradley, Keith (Withington)
Brown, Russell (Dumfries)
Burstow, Paul
Butler, Mrs Christine
Campbell, Rt Hon Menzies
(NE Fife)
Cann, Jamie
Cawsey, Ian
Chaytor, David
Clarke, Rt Hon Tom (Coatbridge)
Clarke, Tony (Northampton S)
Cohen, Harry
Coleman, Iain
Cook, Frank (Stockton N)
Corbyn, Jeremy
Cotter, Brian
Cousins, Jim
Cryer, Mrs Ann (Keighley)
Cryer, John (Hornchurch)
Dalyell, Tam
Davidson, Ian
Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli)
Davis, Terry (B'ham Hodge H)
Dawson, Hilton
Dismore, Andrew
Efford, Clive
Etherington, Bill
Fearn, Ronnie
Flynn, Paul
Forth, Rt Hon Eric
Fyfe, Maria
Gerrard, Neil
Gibson, Dr Ian
Godman, Dr Norman A
Gordon, Mrs Eileen
Gorrie, Donald
Heath, David (Somerton & Frome)
Henderson, Ivan (Harwich)
Hinchliffe, David
Hood, Jimmy
Hopkins, Kelvin
Hughes, Simon (Southwark N)
Hurst, Alan
Iddon, Dr Brian
Jones, Ms Jenny
(Wolverh'ton SW)
Jowell, Rt Hon Ms Tessa
Keen, Alan (Feltham & Heston)
Keetch, Paul
Laxton, Bob
Lepper, David
Llwyd, Elfyn
McDonnell, John
Marsden, Paul (Shrewsbury)
Michie, Bill (Shef'ld Heeley)
Morgan, Alasdair (Galloway)
Naysmith, Dr Doug
O'Hara, Eddie
Palmer, Dr Nick
Perham, Ms Linda
Pike, Peter L
Prentice, Gordon (Pendle)
Prosser, Gwyn
Rammell, Bill
Rapson, Syd
Rooney, Terry
Salter, Martin
Sanders, Adrian
Sarwar, Mohammad
Savidge, Malcolm
Sawford, Phil
Shaw, Jonathan
Simpson, Alan (Nottingham S)
Skinner, Dennis
Smith, Angela (Basildon)
Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent)
Smith, Sir Robert (W Ab'd'ns)
Southworth, Ms Helen
Steinberg, Gerry
Stinchcombe, Paul
Stringer, Graham
Stunell, Andrew
Taylor, Matthew (Truro)
Taylor, Sir Teddy
Tonge, Dr Jenny
Turner, Dennis (Wolverh'ton SE)
Turner, Dr Desmond (Kemptown)
Vis, Dr Rudi
Watts, David
Williams, Alan W (E Carmarthen)
Williams, Mrs Betty (Conwy)
Wise, Audrey
Wood, Mike
Worthington, Tony
Wright, Anthony D (Gt Yarmouth)
Wyatt, Derek

Tellers for the Noes:

Mr. Andrew Mackinlay and
Mr. Michael Connarty.

Question accordingly agreed to.

14 Jul 1999 : Column 505

Question put accordingly, That the amendment be made:--

The House divided: Ayes 102, Noes 209.

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