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Mr. Pickles: I recall the hon. Gentleman's late father talking to me about the Keighley and Worth Valley railway. He said that if it was not run by a business, it would fail. Does the hon. Gentleman think that the Secretary of State is wrong when he says that buses might be an alternative to railways?
Mr. Cryer: I was coming to that.
The Keighley and Worth Valley railway is run not as a private business, but as a co-operative. Everyone who works on it owns it in part. If the hon. Gentleman had asked people in 1963, when Beeching let the axe fall on that railway and many other rural railways, "Would you like to set up a co-operative or would you like the railway to continue as a publicly owned enterprise?", they would have told him that they wished it to continue to be publicly owned. I accept that I might be speaking for some who have a slightly different view. However, the people who I know who are involved in the railway would have opted for public ownership at the time.
I hope that there will be a ministerial comment on rural railways. The Government should give a pledge that all such railways should remain and that there should be no closures. The Strategic Railway Authority should have those powers. There should be no railway closures under this Government. Indeed, there should be an expansion of the railway network.
That is not idle posturing. Looking back to what happened under Beeching in 1963 and thereafter because of the closure of railways, I accept that there was an economic argument for closing many small rural lines. However, their closure took out certain pieces of the national railway system jigsaw, which meant that at the end of the closures there was no longer a comprehensive rail network that covered Britain, so that people and freight could get from A to B.
It is true that no railway company, private or public, can hope to make any profit from many small rural lines. It was argued at the time of Beeching that on some lines British Rail could have afforded to supply a car to everyone who caught a train on them, that being cheaper than keeping the lines open. They were extreme examples. Chopping out bits of the railway network here and there destroys the comprehensive nature of the railway system. That process began in 1963 and it could reach its conclusion in the 1990s and the early years of the next century if we allow the train operating companies to get away with what they want to get away with--cutting back on certain railways and completely abandoning certain lines. It looks as though they are moving towards that.
Mr. Gerald Howarth:
I am very interested in the hon. Gentleman's argument. Can he explain how the railway companies will make money if they end up closing all the lines?
Mr. Cryer:
My answer is that they will not; we should take those companies back into public ownership, but that is my view.
The railway line that runs through my constituency ends in the constituency of the hon. Member for Rochford and Southend, East. The part of the line that runs through Rainham in my constituency is the Tilbury loop, which loops off the main line. Passengers who travel on that railway--and, to some extent, those who travel on the main line--frequently experience delays and train cancellations as well as all sorts of problems with the infrastructure and old mark I slam-door trains. Months and months ago, we were promised that the new stock would be introduced. Even when it is introduced in September it will not replace all the old rolling stock and, although it is difficult to say how much, a lot--perhaps even mark I slam-door trains--will remain in use.
Sir Teddy Taylor:
Does the hon. Gentleman accept, as I am sure he does, that some of the delay was caused by Euro regulation? Largely because of the help provided by one of the excellent Ministers, we will be able to use the new stock; otherwise, it would not have been introduced at all. Does he appreciate that such delays are one of the many problems that British industry has to face up to because of the European Economic Community? We are particularly grateful to that Minister for helping us to resolve the problem.
Mr. Cryer:
That is a fairly abstruse argument. My contention is that if the investment had been made rapidly enough, all the regulations could have been dealt with, including those dealing with access for disabled people. Arguments about that have been proceeding over the past few months, but they could and should have been dealt with a long time ago and the trains should be running on the London-Tilbury-Southend line. The fact is that they are not.
There is also the problem of crumbling stations as well as underinvestment by Railtrack--my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mrs. Dunwoody) referred to the fantasy figures that it has produced. The stations on the line in my constituency continue to crumble. Railtrack is responsible for the parts of stations that are at and below ground level; the train operating company is responsible for those parts which are above ground level. Admittedly, there has been underinvestment in that line for a long time--probably 30 years--but at least under public ownership a new signalling system was installed, which got that railway running reasonably. That had nothing to do with private enterprise. Public investment in a new signalling system costing £150 million got the railway moving.
I want to touch on a couple of points that have not been mentioned. I would like Ministers to say something about the people who work on the railway lines, particularly those involved in track maintenance. The Strategic Rail Authority does not cover them, although it could and should do so. Many of them are working for their fifth, sixth or even seventh employer since the privatisation of the railways only four years ago. They have lost many of their pension rights, they are working longer hours and generally their situation has deteriorated markedly since privatisation.
The hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Mr. Brake) touched on safety, and I have brought a safety issue to the attention of Ministers previously. If a train was stranded in the middle of nowhere at midnight or 1 o'clock in the morning, British Rail was forced by
law to use licensed taxis or proper buses to transport people, many of whom were women travelling by themselves, to their destination. Although I do not think that it was intentional--it was probably an oversight, in spite of my criticisms of privatisation--when the privatisation legislation went through Parliament the same onus was not put on such a service being provided by the train operating companies.
Mr. Efford:
My hon. Friend makes an interesting point. When the use of taxis as replacements for train services was considered by the Deregulation Committee, the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions discovered that the regulations that had applied to British Rail had not been passed on to the new franchises. The requirement for train operating companies to replace discontinued or postponed train services with licensed taxis was removed by the Railways Act 1993.
Mr. Cryer:
I am a member of the Deregulation Committee and my hon. Friend has made exactly the point that I was about to make. Never mind; it is always a pleasure to listen to him.
I am a London Member of Parliament. In the capital, train operating companies could be using unlicensed minicabs to transport passengers, although I do not know how many do so. Across London, about 60 or 70 rapes are committed in minicabs by minicab drivers every year, but no checks are made on their history or physical condition and there are no topographical tests. I have taken that issue up with Ministers and I was not altogether pleased with the response, which was that train operating companies should have some sort of voluntary code of practice. That is not good enough. I want the Government to intervene and say to the train operating companies, "Don't use unlicensed minicabs because they could be dangerous. Use licensed taxis or buses, and nothing else."
Mr. Quinn:
May I offer the House different experience from a different part of the country? The Great North Eastern Railway and Northern Spirit--which are the train operating companies up in Yorkshire, the part of the world where I live--provide taxis and buses that follow the route so that people can continue their journey, and they do that to safeguard the commercial aspects of their business. My hon. Friend has hit on an important point that shows how the industry has fragmented: passengers in his part of east London receive a totally different service from passengers in Yorkshire, even though they all may not reach their ultimate destination.
Mr. Cryer:
The railway industry is fragmenting and the previous Government effectively turned the clock back to pre-1924, or even the last century.
Mr. Eric Pickles (Brentwood and Ongar):
It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Hornchurch (Mr. Cryer). I have affectionate and happy memories of
The hon. Gentleman said that he would try to stay on-message this evening. In fairness, he did stay on-message--for two minutes and five seconds, according to my stopwatch. After that, he went distinctly off-message. If the Labour Whips had given him a pager, it would have been ringing on his belt.
One thing is certain: although there are grave reservations about the Strategic Rail Authority, the Bill is not a step towards renationalisation of the railways. It is proof of the success of privatisation that no Government member now seriously believes that renationalisation would be a good idea.
In an intervention on my hon. Friend the Member for Rochford and Southend, East (Sir T. Taylor), the hon. Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Mr. Quinn) said that the SRA was the light at the end of the tunnel. Conservative Members are concerned that it could be a train coming at high speed in the opposite direction.
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