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Mr. Jenkin: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way once more--I shall not interrupt him again. When the Conservatives privatised the railways, we pledged that we would never give in to "bustitution",
so the change of policy under the Labour Government is a matter of concern. I certainly accept that the hon. Gentleman is arguing hard on behalf of communities.
The figure of £3 billion to which the hon. Member for Croydon, Central (Mr. Davies) refers is a borrowing limit, and a borrowing limit on a public authority must be sanctioned by the Treasury, because any borrowing turns up in the public sector borrowing requirement. That means that every decision by the SRA to borrow money will end up on the desk of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Is that the way in which the hon. Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Mr. Quinn) wants the railways to be run?
Mr. Quinn:
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, and I am pleased to hear that it will be the last.
The key point is that we want a transport policy that delivers for people. I represent a remote part of northern England that desperately needs economic development and sustainable transport systems. I perceive in the Bill the opportunity to create partnership and linkage for the benefit of the people I represent by enabling strings to be attached to the considerable sums of public money--their money, their taxes--that go into the coffers of Railtrack.
I remind the hon. Member for North Essex (Mr. Jenkin) that the railways industry is awash with money. My experience of working in the industry for many years from 1979, when the Conservative Government entered office, tells me that the presence of that money has not resulted in the sort of investment that our railways need. It has not delivered the new rolling stock that would result in trains running on the tracks more quietly, so that the constituents of the hon. Member for Guildford (Mr. St. Aubyn) were not disturbed in the night. Investment could be far better targeted and controlled to ensure far greater efficiency.
Time is limited and I want to allow others to contribute to the debate. My final point is a procedural one, concerning the business in this place. I take issue with the points made by the hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Mr. Pickles), who is unfortunately not in his place to hear this. The offer of Select Committee scrutiny is an opportunity for all hon. Members to engage in wider debate, to describe their personal experiences of transport systems in their communities, and so ensure that we get policy in this area right. Far from detracting from overall scrutiny, we are extending debating time.
Mr. Gerald Howarth (Aldershot):
I shall not follow the hon. Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Mr. Quinn) down the branch line to his constituency, save to say that he represents the authentic voice of the British Railways Board, which I thought we had ditched a long time ago. His speech was a little depressing, but I wish him well with his constituents. I am sure that his
I am sorry that the hon. Member for Southampton, Test (Dr. Whitehead) is not in his place. He said that some of us Opposition Members were repudiating all that previous Conservative Governments had undertaken. I am delighted to say that, far from repudiating the Railways Act 1993, I entirely endorse it. I am only sorry that, unfortunately, I was resting between engagements and unable to vote for it which, had I been a Member at the time, I would have done with enthusiasm.
There has been an interesting display from Labour Members in this debate. We have had the full gamut--old Labour, represented by the hon. Member for Hornchurch (Mr. Cryer); some new Labour, and the authentic voice of the British Railways Board somewhere in the middle. Until recent weeks, it has been characteristic of the Labour party to run down the efforts of the privatised companies to provide a better service to the public. In opposition, Labour's policy of seeking to undermine the flotation not only of Railtrack but of the train operating companies unquestionably damaged very seriously the amount that the Treasury was able to raise from the sale of those national assets.
Mr. Geraint Davies:
Is the hon. Gentleman interested to know that the £3.90 share price set by Warburg for the flotation of Railtrack was 10 times oversubscribed? Even ignoring the fact that the assets appreciated from a value of £1.9 billion to more than £8 billion, they were given away, and that is a national disgrace for which he should apologise.
Mr. Howarth:
I am sorry to disappoint the hon. Gentleman, but I have no intention of apologising. I was neither a Minister nor a Member of Parliament at the time--nor was I one of the financial advisers in the City. The hon. Gentleman is so intelligent and so vastly superior to everybody else that I have no doubt that he knows precisely the price at which Railtrack should have been offered to the public and that he will tell us so now.
Mr. Davies:
Another 15 per cent. should certainly have been added. Scenario planning--[Interruption.] Before speaking on these issues, the hon. Gentleman should read some of the National Audit Office reports. He is clearly abundantly ignorant on this matter and should stop talking about it.
Mr. Howarth:
The next time I speak to my friends in the City, I shall recommend the hon. Gentleman as an up-and-coming potential investment banker. His considered view is that, at 15 per cent. extra, Warburg would have hit just the right price. I am sure that it will be delighted to know that.
Mr. Jenkin:
The price would have been £4.48 instead.
Mr. Howarth:
My hon. Friend has done the calculation; what a pathetic contribution from the hon. Member for Croydon, Central (Mr. Davies).
Mr. Davies:
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr. Howarth:
No, I have given way enough to the hon. Gentleman. My hon. Friend the Member for North Essex (Mr. Jenkin) is sorely tempting me to do so again, but I shall visit the hon. Gentleman later.
The Labour party has had a vested interest in underselling the success of privatisation. It keeps talking about the fragmentation of the railway system, and it has decried the operators and accused them of making money and of failing to provide an adequate service. It is interesting that the Minister for Transport's predecessor, the right hon. Member for Hamilton, North and Bellshill (Dr. Reid), finally understood that such a policy was leading nowhere, when he said in an interview with New Statesman in April:
I see no intrinsic opposition to the Government's Strategic Rail Authority. The accusation is that the previous legislation was hurried. That is self-evident; we were trying to get it through before the election, something of which we should not be ashamed. We wanted to ensure that it was out of reach of the nationalisers, and in that we were supremely successful. I readily accept that improvements could be made; legislation is often enacted that subsequently requires improvement.
It was refreshing to hear the Secretary of State at last acknowledge that the private railway companies have had some substantial successes. I shall not rehearse them all, but I shall repeat some of them because there are still too many Labour Members who are not prepared to give the privatised companies the credit that the Secretary of State gives them. Whether that will put him in bad odour with his family, I know and hope not.
The Secretary of State was gracious enough today to acknowledge that, for example, the number of passenger trains has increased by 14 per cent. over the past four years, that freight tonne miles are up by 35 per cent., that 2,300 new carriages are on order and that there are 1,000 extra services a day--although I understand that it is even more than that. In addition, 12 new stations have been opened since this Government came to office, for which the Secretary of State took credit. I am not worried whether he takes the credit because it was our legislation that provided the means, and all such investment is to be welcomed. The £90 million investment of South West Trains in 30 new trains will be warmly welcomed by my constituents.
There has not just been new investment, however. There is a new attitude, too. There is a much more positive attitude about serving the customer. The other day, for example, on Farnborough station, in my constituency, I went to see the new emergency call arrangements. Regardless of whether a member of staff is on duty--which may not always be possible; for example, in the middle of the night--or is not accessible, the new arrangements enable any passenger who feels at risk or in danger in any way simply to press a button on a machine, putting him or her in direct contact with a helpline at a central control operation. That is the type of service that
should have been introduced years ago. Why did the public sector--which, we are told, has great concerns about passenger welfare--not introduce that service?
The private sector has passenger welfare at the heart of its concerns because it knows that passengers pay the money for fares that enables it to generate income. The new emergency call arrangements at my station were a very good innovation, and they are typical of many developments.
At Aldershot station, it was some time before I realised that the flower baskets hanging from the station contained not real but plastic flowers. However, rather than leaving each basket of flowers in place for three or four years, station staff rotate the baskets about every six weeks so that it looks like there are new flowers. The whole atmosphere and presentation of the railways have been enhanced--[Interruption.]
Before the Minister starts rolling around, thinking that that is frightfully funny, I should tell her that, if she had paid a little more attention to what people really want and to presentation--as the Prime Minister's spin doctor spends all his time doing--she would perhaps understand that the railways have improved and the importance of the type of differences that I have been describing. Obviously, those changes are not the same as substantial investment in fixtures, fittings and rolling stock, but they are important.
"Over the past year we've moved away from standing on the side, criticising and using the rhetoric of threats. Instead we're going to work with the companies to get the best bargain for passengers".
The right hon. Gentleman gave the game away: this Government were in the business of using threats, attacking and decrying. It was only with his appointment that some positive work began in recognising the contribution that the private sector could make to the success of the railways.
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