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Mrs. Beckett: I am not sure that the House would recognise "passive" as an accurate description of the hon. Gentleman. As a matter of fact, he is one of the more active Members of the House. He is absolutely right to say that in the Modernisation Committee and elsewhere, the Government have made it plain, as I have done as Leader of the House, that we seek to avoid the use of guillotines if possible, and seek programme motions instead. He will recall that I mentioned earlier that we sought a programme motion on the Food Standards Bill, which the House will debate tomorrow.

I entirely share the hon. Gentleman's view that there must be proper, adequate scrutiny. I know that he has experience of programme motions facilitating such scrutiny. There is common ground between most hon. Members in that we want sensible timetabling of business, and proper, adequate debate and scrutiny. Most of us do not want to waste time.

Mr. Peter Brooke (Cities of London and Westminster): Will the Leader of the House accept that, having come downstairs from a Select Committee, I have sat in the Chamber for almost all the time since then in a way that has not been matched by the majority of the hon. Members behind her who are shouting? Will she further accept that in the debate on amendment No. 15, which was in my view one of the most serious debates that has ever taken place in the House during my time here, the Secretary of State, quite properly, spoke for almost as long as all the Opposition Members who contributed? If such debates are to be curtailed in this way, that will be to the Government's discredit.

Mrs. Beckett: I understand the right hon. Gentleman's point and, of course, I respect his experience in this matter, but I am sure that he will have noticed that I was careful to say that it was the progress and the general climate of the handling of business over the week as a whole that led to the Government's concern. There is nothing that the Government would have liked better than measured progress on tonight's business and the assurance that progress on tomorrow's business will also be measured and sensible and that it will reach the conclusion that we all want by the House's coming to a decision. Anxieties were raised not only that tonight's business might to some degree be in jeopardy but that tomorrow's business and private Members' time might be in jeopardy. The Government did not feel that we ought to run that risk.

Mr. Peter Luff (Mid-Worcestershire): I agree with the Leader of the House when she says that the conduct of this week's business has prompted this decision, because the Government wasted a whole day of the House's time on Monday with the Second Reading of a Bill which will have to be reintroduced in the next Session. Does she understand that the unfortunate victim of the

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Government's mishandling of their own business, which was designed simply to save the Deputy Prime Minister's face, is the Food Standards Bill, which the Government have scandalously mishandled? Pre-legislative scrutiny was unacceptably rushed, as I pointed out to her in detail when the Bill was referred to the Special Select Committee. It has been rushed through Standing Committee, and now we are told, extraordinarily, that it is to be programmed, yet we have no hint of how the House will deal with it.

The Food Standards Bill is important, and if the Government took it seriously, as I am sure they do--I know that the Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food certainly does--they would have provided Monday or a day next week to debate it. Such a programme motion as is proposed is completely unacceptable. I urge the Leader of the House in all sincerity to reconsider her statement.

Mrs. Beckett: As I hope that I have already made plain, it is the Government's intention that the Food Standards Bill will be properly scrutinised tomorrow and that proceedings can be brought to a proper conclusion. I know that the hon. Gentleman and many of his hon. Friends have sympathy with and support for some of the issues behind the Bill; we share their concern in that respect. It is because we are determined not to jeopardise that that we have chosen to take precautionary steps.

As for the hon. Gentleman's remarks about Monday's business, I simply draw to his attention the fact that, to my recollection, a minimum of two hours was taken up outside the discussion of business. Indeed, that would have gone on much longer had not the Deputy Speaker allowed a closure motion to be moved. It is the Government's lack of certainty about proper progress of business--not just as a result of the official Opposition, although I remind the hon. Gentleman that they did not agree to a programme motion on the Bill--that has led us reluctantly to take this step.

Mr. Douglas Hogg (Sleaford and North Hykeham) rose--

Hon. Members: Hear, hear.

Mr. Hogg: The right hon. Lady speaks of a lack of certainty, but I suggest that she consult the Board, because she will find that during the previous debate the Government Front Bencher spoke for 69 minutes and the Opposition Front Bencher for 26 minutes. On that basis, may I ask what possible reason there is for calling an end to tonight's debate and imposing a guillotine?

Mrs. Beckett: You will have observed, Mr. Deputy Speaker--the right hon. and learned Gentleman might have observed it if he had been listening--that I have been referring not solely to the progress of tonight's business but to the cumulative effect of this week. If we are talking about taking up time frivolously, the right hon. and learned Gentleman has an honourable place in the canons of this House.

Mr. Peter Snape (West Bromwich, East): Are you aware, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that what we are listening to is the usual public school end-of-term froth from the Conservative party? Some of the more stupid

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Conservative Members have been behaving in this infantile way all week. As for the right hon. and learned Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Mr. Hogg), who has just asked a question, what does he know about the conduct of tonight's business? He has, after all, been sitting at a table in the restaurant next to me.

Mr. Crispin Blunt (Reigate): Will the right hon. Lady explain why the programme over the last week or so has gone to hell in a handbag in such a fashion that the Government have had to come to the House at short notice to make this statement at 10 o'clock tonight, when, according to my count, there are 298 Government amendments to be considered and only two Opposition amendments to be considered on the business for tonight? Also, given the references that have been made to time that has been taken in the debate, and especially as the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry plainly had no answer to the cogent case that my right hon. Friend the Member for Bridgwater (Mr. King) and the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mr. Beith) were making for the amendments that they had tabled--he was unable to adduce a sensible reason not to accept them--is not the whole conduct of this business and this late statement tonight a disgrace and an arrogant treatment of Members of the House?

Mrs. Beckett: Usual complaint--as usual, unfounded.

Mr. John Greenway (Ryedale): The right hon. Lady has been extremely frank with the House. She has said that she wishes to timetable the Food Standards Bill to protect Friday's business. Am I not right in thinking that Friday's business in the other place is also to consider the Food Standards Bill? However, be that as it may, although she may be right in concluding that a timetable guillotine motion is appropriate for the Employment Relations Bill, which the House has been considering tonight, many people in rural communities the length and breadth of this country who are gravely concerned about the measures in the Food Standards Bill will regard the guillotine motion as another slap in the face from the Government for people who live in rural areas.

Mrs. Beckett: I am not quite sure what point the hon. Gentleman is making. He will appreciate that I have said that I shall address the timetable for the Employment Relations Bill in tomorrow's business statement. I have made it plain that the Government do intend to provide proper time tomorrow for debate of the Food Standards Bill. If the hon. Gentleman is saying that he would have required more time than business would have allowed tomorrow for the Food Standards Bill--[Interruption.] I see the hon. Gentleman nodding. He is actually making the Government's case. If there are Members in the House who believe, whether as representatives of the official Opposition or as Back Benchers, that inadequate time was allowed for the Food Standards Bill, it was their job as Members of the House to raise the matter at business questions. It was also their job to raise the matter with their Front-Bench team if they thought that inadequate time had been allowed. We have had repeated examples of Members who could not be bothered to raise such issues in advance and who then come along at the last

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minute and say, "We need another day", or "We need another half a day. The hon. Gentleman is making the case for the guillotine.

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