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Mr. Mullin: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the positive tone of his reply. I acknowledge the good work of his Department in raising farm animal welfare standards. Much more progress must be made to eliminate the worst excesses of factory farming, about which we have been complacent for far too long. I appreciate that we can move only at the speed at which we can convince our EC partners to move, but I recognise that the Government are doing their best in this area.
We have had a useful little debate. The Bill should not pass without some reference to the welfare of the millions of farm animals that are slaughtered every week. It is an issue of great concern to our constituents and to many of us on both sides of the House.
To take up a point made by the hon. Member for Mid-Worcestershire (Mr. Luff), I am a little nervous when I hear people say that we have the best standards in the world. Over the years, I have heard that applied to our police force, our judges and, with rather more accuracy, to our armed forces--indeed, to a whole range of our institutions. It smacks slightly of complacency, if he will forgive my saying so, and we should never be complacent.
I acknowledge the points made by the right hon. Member for Wealden (Sir G. Johnson Smith) and the hon. Member for St. Ives (Mr. George) about the need for local abattoirs to be properly regulated to prevent stressful lengthy journeys to slaughter. I am grateful to the Minister for his assurances and clarifications. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Mrs. Spelman:
I beg to move amendment No. 2, in page 3, line 25, at end insert--
Mr. Deputy Speaker:
With this, it will be convenient to discuss amendment No. 12, in clause 21, page 10, line 43, at end insert--
Mrs. Spelman:
It is my pleasure to speak to these amendments. I intend to be as brief as possible in the interests of reaching some of the meatier subjects, if the House will forgive the pun, further down the amendment paper in the restricted time available.
The purpose of amendment No. 2 is to add a duty to any authority which makes a request to the agency to exercise its powers. The principal reason behind it goes back to one of the core themes of many of our amendments, which is to preserve the independence and ensure the transparency of the agency.
I pay tribute to the work of my hon. Friend the Member for Cotswold (Mr. Clifton-Brown), who has been present throughout much of the debate and who has been a watchdog for this whole question of independence and transparency for the agency. At many points in the Standing Committee Hansard he pointed out the need to try at all costs to preserve the independence of the agency. That is why we believe that it is imperative that when a request is made for the agency to exercise its powers, the reasons should be stated immediately. In that way, consumers, producers and retailers will be able to see the open working of the agency. We feel strongly that if there is any delay in giving the reasons, or if the reasons are not given, for requesting the agency to exercise its power, its independence will be undermined.
On other clauses, we have called for the reasons for the exercise of power to be clearly stated. For example, in clause 11 the power of entry to premises comes without the agency's having to state the reasons for going in. We understood the reason for the random visiting by foods standards officers and why the reasons could not be stated
in that instance, but we believe that it is imperative that the reasons are published immediately where another authority--a Minister, a Department or a devolved authority--makes a request.
We were pleased that amendment No. 12 was selected on Report because it deals with the huge powers contained in clause 21. We christened clause 21 the Martini clause. Anyone familiar with the advertising will know that the slogan for Martini was "Any time, any place, anywhere". We have some concern that the agency has been granted sweeping powers.
My hon. Friend the Member for Ludlow (Mr. Gill) has wisely spotted the need to introduce some constraints and has succeeded in having the amendment selected. That gives us another chance to restrain the huge powers in clause 21. The Chartered Institute of Environmental Health has expressed to me its concern that no clear explanation of clause 21 was given in Committee. Perhaps we may hear from the Minister that some restraining powers will be imposed in connection with clause 21 that would give us some comfort.
Amendment No. 12 would require the agency to make a report to Parliament on the exercise of its powers in each calendar year as part of its annual report. If it were accepted, it would bring greater accountability to the otherwise sweeping powers contained in the clause.
Mr. Gill:
Amendment No. 12, which is tabled in my name, would amend clause 21, to which my hon. Friend the Member for Meriden (Mrs. Spelman) has just referred as the Martini clause. The Minister of State spoke earlier about the quality of the legislation that had gone through the House. He went so far as to say that some legislation that had reached the statute book was abysmal. I am anxious that we do not put on the statute book legislation that could be described as abysmal. We are all concerned about the amount of legislation that is reaching the statute book and, as a consequence, the amount of regulation to which business in this country is subject. We all want less regulation.
We need to deal with the problem. The problem is that the Bill is another enabling Bill, despite all its good features. Whenever we put a Bill that can be described as enabling on the statute book, we open the floodgates of regulation from successive Ministers and Departments. Although the Bill is generally accepted to be good in many ways, it is yet another enabling measure, which will give future Ministers--indeed the present Minister--wide powers. Incidentally, I am sure that the House would want to pay tribute to the Minister for the way in which he has steered the Bill through the various processes that he described earlier. We give him credit for the fact that he has used new procedures to ensure that there has been the fullest consultation at every stage. That is much appreciated. However, despite all the consultation and the Minister's best offices, this is an enabling Bill, which gives the Government enormous powers to do almost whatever they want.
7.30 pm
The Minister is aware that, on Second Reading, I was critical of the fact that the Government were taking those unnecessary powers. I pointed out that it would be undesirable because the measure gives MAFF a blueprint to come back with further measures at any stage--"any time, any place", as my hon. Friend the Member for Meriden says. Those measures will not be subject to the same scrutiny as the Bill.
On Second Reading, I quoted the opening sentence of clause 21, which states:
At this late stage in the Bill's proceedings, it will be difficult--if not impossible--to persuade Ministers to renounce or limit the Bill's powers. However, it is not unreasonable to ask the Minister to consider my amendment, which would provide for the Government to make a report to Parliament about the powers that they exercise under clause 21. The Minister should be sympathetic to the amendment; he is a democrat, and he shares our concern about the plethora of legislation that emanates from Government. This is not a party political point; during the past decade or so, Governments of all persuasions have been equally guilty in passing enabling legislation, which has triggered the plethora of regulation to which we all object.
I hope that the Minister will consider accepting the amendment. It is supported by the Food and Drink Federation--the recognised umbrella organisation for many trade associations in the food and drink industry, although not all of them belong to it. In a circular letter, which I imagine has been sent to all Members of Parliament who are interested in the Bill, the federation says that it supports the objective of the amendment in seeking an annual report on the exercise of the agency's powers under clause 21 and believes that that should be included in the annual report that the agency is required, under clause 4, to make to Parliament.
The Minister is a reasonable man and I know that he takes great pride in the Bill. It has been his baby and he has steered it all the way through its parliamentary process. He was there at its inception and, God willing, he will be there when it reaches the statute book. Such things as reshuffles intervene, but I hope that the Minister will survive the next reshuffle in his present office where, within the constraints that the overall direction of his Government impose, he has done a very good job.
On behalf of my industry, I compliment the Minister on taking the time and the trouble to understand the industry. We do not underestimate his achievement. The Minister represents an urban constituency and it is unlikely that he knew much about agriculture, livestock and all the processes associated with them when he assumed his present role. However, the Minister has learned about them and the industry is grateful to him for doing so.
'(4) Any authority making such a request shall immediately publish its reasons for so doing.'.
'(4) The Agency shall make a report to Parliament on the exercise of its powers under this section in each calendar year.'.
"The Agency has power to do anything."
I criticised that. The Minister responded by saying, in effect, that it was grossly unfair of me to have quoted only the first part of that sentence. However, if I now quote the full sentence, the Minister will agree that the sense is not changed in any way. It states:
"The Agency has power to do anything which is calculated to facilitate, or is conducive or incidental to, the exercise of its functions."
For the sake of brevity on Second Reading, I did not use the whole sentence, but whether one uses only the first seven words or the whole sentence, it makes no difference. Obviously, if the agency has powers to do anything, such powers must be within its remit. I was not pretending for one moment that the Bill enabled the Government to do anything in any matter. It stands to reason that the provision applies only to the Bill. The Minister was being too sensitive in his winding-up speech on Second Reading, when he referred to my criticism of the fact that the Government had taken so much power.
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