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Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I hope that the hon. Lady realises the limits of the allusion she made and that she will go no further down that path. We are debating family friendly employment policies.
Mrs. Browning: I am grateful to you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but you will be aware that there are as many elderly and frail people living in Kensington and Chelsea as there are in other parts of the country. Does the hon. Member for Rochdale now want to intervene?
Lorna Fitzsimons: No. I would have made the same point as my hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Mr. MacShane).
Yesterday, the Minister said that DTI Ministers were now to engage with the Treasury on the matter. He is new to the DTI, so I should tell him that that is not uncommon. The Secretary of State for Trade and Industry has introduced a range of employment policies that are ill thought through and create unfairness. Does anyone in his Department have any common sense? Does anyone think policies through and anticipate the problems? I genuinely believe that the Minister will make a valuable contribution to the DTI and I trust that he will bring a little common sense to bear on future policy making, so that policies are thought through properly before being put into the public domain.
Mr. Johnson:
To answer the hon. Lady's point, there is no battle going on between the DTI and the Treasury. The DTI highlighted in May's consultation document the fact that changing the relationship so that the carer was clearly linked to the employment bureau and not to the person in need of care, which is a crucial concern of all the agencies, would have VAT implications. Having flagged up the problem, we are not about to fail to resolve
Mrs. Browning:
I am grateful to the Minister for that clarification. In the part of country that I represent, my natural political opponents are not members of the Labour party but Liberal Democrats, so I am familiar with the political tactic of creating a problem so as to be seen to solve it. It is a characteristic of Liberal Democrats--
Dr. Vincent Cable (Twickenham)
indicated assent.
Mrs. Browning:
I am glad that the hon. Gentleman agrees with me.
The Minister tells us that discussions are being held, but, in the meantime, many elderly people are extremely concerned. If the problem has now been recognised and Ministers understand the need to resolve it, I hope that they will get a move on and end the uncertainty that is making many people extremely anxious.
We have heard a great deal about policies for members of younger age groups and families with younger children. However, we are alert to the fact that such family friendly employment policies emerge from a Department whose Secretary of State has, as I said yesterday, quoting a report of the Select Committee on Trade and Industry, earned a reputation for having the respectable habit--that was a Freudian slip; I meant to say, a
Mrs. Browning:
A former Liberal Member of Parliament.
I should like to draw the Minister's attention to some of the family friendly policies, especially those involving children, that have been promoted by Ministers. I refer to the Government's annual report, which was widely available in Tesco and elsewhere earlier this year. The report claims that the Government's policy is,
The only increase was in the number of day nursery places. Although those figures have risen consistently since 1992, Conservative Members have often drawn attention to the fact that that increase is due to the fears
of parents of rising fives and four-year-olds that, if they do not take up a place in a day nursery, they will be unable to get their child into a primary school of their choice. Therefore, apart from playgroup places, the figures that I have cited are for places that were on a rising scale since 1992--
Mr. Chris Pond (Gravesham):
Will the hon. Lady give way?
Mrs. Browning:
I shall give way when I have finished dealing with the figures, because it is difficult for people to grapple with them. Apart from playgroup places, figures rose consistently between 1992 and 1997. Despite the Government's pledge in their annual report, the number of places has dropped. Perhaps the hon. Member for Gravesham (Mr. Pond) or the Minister will explain why that pledge has not been honoured.
Mr. Pond:
Can the hon. Lady tell the House what happened to the number of playgroups and other forms of pre-school child care under the previous Government's voucher system? Does she realise that the working families tax credit entitles people to help with their child care of up to £70 a week if they have one child and £100 a week if they have two or more children? If the Conservative party regained office, would it scrap that provision and take help away from working families?
Mrs. Browning:
I shall comment on the working families tax credit shortly. However, when the Government create problems through their policy implementation, it is not for the Opposition to get a broom and clear up the mess.
Mrs. Browning:
I am dealing with one intervention; I shall give way to the hon. Lady in a moment.
I was citing a lot of figures when the hon. Member for Gravesham intervened. Therefore, I reiterate that the figures between 1992 and 1997 show clearly that the total number of available places in all categories increased consistently. Given the Government's commitment in their annual report, why has there now been a drop in the number of child care places across the spectrum?
The Opposition believe in providing choice, and allowing parents to choose the type of facility that they want for their children. We believe in a range of provision so that parents can decide what is appropriate for them and their children. With the one exception that I mentioned, there has been a drop in all categories of provision. The Government put their policies in writing and make great play of how wonderful everything is. It is incumbent on the Minister, who is present to answer questions about Government policy, to explain the reasons for the drop in child care provision. I am anxious to know that.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Dr. Kim Howells):
We will attempt to check the figures with the Department for Education and Employment. Perhaps the drop is due to
In the unlikely event of the Opposition ever gaining government, would they do away with the help of £70 for one child and that of £100 for two or more children? If so, what would that do for the availability of places?
Mrs. Browning:
The Under-Secretary asks a question and then anticipates my response. As many Labour Members said when they were in opposition, we are undertaking a complete review of policies and, by the next election, we will issue a properly costed policy. The Government called for the debate; I presume that they do not want to debate the common-sense revolution.
Mrs. Browning:
I am dealing with the Under-Secretary's intervention; I shall come to the hon. Gentleman shortly.
"regrettable habit of issuing potentially misleading information".--[Official Report, 4 November 1999; Vol. 337, c. 461, 468.]
Mr. MacShane:
Who is Freud?
"The first ever national childcare strategy backed by an extra £470 million, to increase good quality, affordable childcare: 30,000 new childcare clubs and up to a million new childcare places."
We hear much about what the Government are supposed to have done about various sorts of child care places. Why is there an overall reduction in types of places that are available, especially for children who are under eight? Library figures show that the total number of places--in day nurseries, with registered child minders, in playgroups, nursery schools and classes--has decreased from 1,345,658 in 1998 to 1,298,410 this year. I shall put that in context. The total number of day care places for under-eights fell by 47,248. Of those, the number of places in nursery schools and classes fell from 368,358 to 366,910; the number of playgroup places fell from 370,700 to 336,600; and the number of places with registered child minders fell from 383,600 to 347,200.
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