Examination of Witnesses (Questions 220
- 226)
MONDAY 17 MAY 1999
MR GARETH
BOTT, MR
PAUL LAUTMAN,
MR BARRY
SHEARING, MR
DAVID GARY,
MR MICHAEL
DURKAN AND
MR NORMAN
MACKENZIE
220. Moving on to a general question, within
the time constraints you have had for the basic pilots are there
any examples of innovation, of particular ideas that you are pleased
with that you are trying to develop, that you have had time to
develop within those pilots? For Gareth, have you yet heard of
anything at all that the private sector is thinking about that
is going to be this innovative approach and they are now looking
at experimenting into the future and evaluating what is going
on, looking at good practice? David's comments clearly indicated
how we could reach a broader range of people, which we are all
concerned to do, are there any other examples that any of you
have so far that are going to happen or that anybody has thought
about that we should be looking to in the future?
(Mr Shearing) At Chelmsford we are looking at having
a call centre arrangement within the council itself anyway and
greater IT communications with some of the remoter parts of the
borough. It is something that we are doing independently of the
Gateway.
Mr Keetch
221. This should be particularly useful in rural
areas.
(Mr Shearing) It should indeed.
(Mr Durkan) Shall I answer on the private sector?
It is going to be a short one. Yes, we have seen some proposals
from the private sector bidders but unfortunately they are in
commercial confidence. I have signed the act that says I cannot
divulge what they are.
Judy Mallaber: I will have to go and quiz my
Borough Treasurer.
Mr Keetch
222. Nonetheless, would you have liked local
authorities to be able to tender?
(Mr Durkan) Yes.
Mr Keetch: Lots of nodding of heads.
Ms Atherton: Not everybody was nodding.
223. Is Taunton nodding?
(Mr Gary) I am nodding, but I am somewhat cognisant
of the law which would probably prevent it.
224. Given any changes that could have been
made, you would have liked to have had the opportunity to?
(Mr Gary) We have been right up front there.
(Mr Lautman) Local authorities would have liked the
option to have been given to them and clearly individual authorities
would take their own view as to whether they would be interested
directly.
Judy Mallaber
225. Are there any specific comments that you
have on the question of how the pilots should be evaluated, issues
that you would like to give to us that we should be taking on
board?
(Mr Lautman) I think there is a very fundamental point
which is that we would like to be involved in establishing what
the evaluation criteria are. To date we have had no discussions
on that. If I can take that peg to pick up an earlier point and
say that although discussions were not as frequent and as good
as they should have been to begin with, we have now established
good and effective liaison arrangements with the DSS and the DfEE
and we are satisfied with those in terms of airing the issues
that are now of concern to authorities.
226. Are there any issues you think we should
highlight as important for evaluation in our report?
(Mr Lautman) Clearly there are basic processing data
that would need to be collated in terms of the speed in which
claims are processed, but I think it is very important the Government
also surveys and takes note of the views of authorities on the
social services and welfare rights side, other voluntary groups
in terms of their experience, what has been the impact on their
clients coming through their doors so that they have a rounded
picture of the pilots.
(Mr Bott) In particular, I think it is quite important
for the private and voluntary sector variants that when we get
to the evaluation criteria, particularly where they will affect
the output-based funding, we do not just look at straightforward
job placements, that we look at the inputs for the less job ready
as well so that we do not have the private sector just dashing
for the clients where they can make money quickly.
(Mr Mackenzie) The Gateway is supposed to be on much
more than just the numbers of people placed in jobs or given information
and given opportunities to enter paid employment. It is supposed
to be about giving people information and supporting people in
choices. For many people paid employment is not the course of
work that they will want to do. Many people will want to continue
being parents, many carers will want to continue being carers
and many disabled people will want support to live an independent
life with disability and not to be pushed out. Another thing is
simply that not everybody is as empowered and strong as some people
are. The benefits that are vetted by the Gateway include Incapacity
Benefit and Severe Disablement Allowance and we have to be very
careful to make sure that people are supported in the choice that
they make where they are not required to find work rather than
have the thing being assessed simply on the number of people who
are moved closer towards the labour market.
Mr Keetch: Gentlemen, thank you very much for
your attendance this afternoon. Your answers are very useful to
us. Please do keep in touch with us and pass us any information
you would wish us to have. Thank you.
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