Examination of Witnesses (Questions 140
- 144)
MONDAY 10 MAY 1999
MR RICHARD
WOOD AND
MR NEIL
BETTERIDGE
Mr Dismore
140. Can I ask you about take-up of benefits
and to what extent take-up is a problem for people with disabilities?
(Mr Wood) It is a big problem. The evidence
I saw said that something like a third of disabled people who
were probably entitled to Disability Living Allowance were not
claiming the benefit. So there are significant underclaims, for
all the reasons we know. Getting information is so difficult.
Anecdotally, I have just been supporting a young person, a 17
year old, who was moving out of home and you cannot imagine the
number of agencies you have to approach, none of whom give you
information. You have to know what it is you are looking for,
nobody is saying, "Yes, you could be entitled to income support
or JSA", you have to go and say, "What does JSA do?
What does income support do? How can I qualify?" The onus
is very much on you. I would hope if these gateways work the onus
would be very much the other way round and it will be seeking
to ensure people are getting the benefits.
141. So the gateway is one way in which we can
potentially overcome that particular problem?
(Mr Wood) I think the idea of a gateway
to give people information about the benefits system is really
a good idea because it is far too difficult, not just for disabled
people but for all people, to get information about what is around
in the system. There are so many different agencies running the
benefits—you have the local authority, you have everybody
doing it. If you can put all that in one place, with trained experts
who can go through a check list and you can come out and know
what you are entitled to and you fill one form in and it goes
to one place—brilliant! Similarly with work.
Ms Atherton
142. I would be quite interested in that!
(Mr Betteridge) We hope that the data
which comes out of the new periodic review inquiry in the next
six months, when that is reviewed in October, will feed into some
of the information that is given to people attending gateway interviews,
so that the problem can be tackled at source if you like. Why
are people who are entitled to a higher rate of Disability Living
Allowance actually not getting it?
Mr Dismore
143. One other question I would like to come
back to, and that is the contrast of the two things you are trying
to do through the gateway process. On the one hand you are trying
to establish entitlement to benefits, on the other hand you are
trying to help people back to work. Do you think it is possible
to look at both those things at the same time effectively?
(Mr Wood) It seems a paradox to me. I
cannot work out where there is not going to be a degree of threat,
intentional or not. There is bound to be a feeling of threat.
We are back to the first question really, for the reasons we said
the Benefit Integrity Project has done massive damage to disabled
people's confidence in the benefits system.
144. Are we not in danger of concentrating on
what people cannot do rather than looking at what they can do
at the same time? If we do not do both those things, are we not
missing half the equation?
(Mr Wood) Is not one's claim for, say,
incapacity benefit based on not being able to work but at the
same time you have to show why you might be able to work? That
does not seem to me to be a good balance at all. It is always
reasonable at some point for somebody to explore other possibilities
at the same time.
(Mr Betteridge) One of the difficulties that a person
having a personal capacity assessment may experience when they
start to take do an all-work test is that a lot of disabled people
can work in certain circumstances, can work for certain amounts
of time in a week, can work full-time for certain periods and
then cannot work, and when you have first principles emanating
from Government saying, "Work for those who can, support
for those who cannot", it is not as simple as that.
Chairman: Thank you, gentlemen, very much indeed.
Perhaps I should explain before we close that the Employment Sub
Committee side of this Joint Committee went to Australia and we
saw their single gateway or "centre link", as I think
they called it, and it seemed to us that the motivation of it
was to put the whole of new technology and every possible source
of information and advice at the disposal of the client to achieve
just what you have said, a greater independence in them taking
their own decisions. That is what excited us about this process
and we would hope by the evidence you have given us this afternoon
and by the continuing evidence we hope to take we may be able
to nudge the Government a bit in that direction. Thank you.
| 
