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Mr. Rooker: I will in a moment. I want to finish the point about the winter fuel payment.
We have to find those males aged 60-plus who did not have a spouse who was receiving the winter fuel payment; it is per household, not per person. We estimate that there are 1.5 million such males. Many will not be receiving any benefit. They will be at work. We do not have direct day-to-day contact with them, other than the fact that they pay national insurance contributions. We do not have a database from which to drum the information up, so it will take time to put together. Some of the 1.5 million-plus will have a spouse who received the £100. Obviously, the date of birth is relevant; it could have been before or after 20 September.
The European Court judgment might have made it look a simple matter of paying everyone from 60, rather than at our state retirement ages, but life is not as simple as that. We will do our best to get the backdated payments of about £100--it could be £20, or £140 to £170--to those people as soon as possible. However, it is as important to get our database correct--so that they receive their winter fuel payments before Christmas this year--as it is to pay the arrears.
Miss McIntosh:
I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman would agree that I am not known for carping in this place. I am trying to be helpful. What advice would
Mr. Rooker:
If those people have not received the payment for last year and the year before, obviously something is seriously wrong, and we should be provided with the details. There has been a telephone helpline. There have been facilities for people to be able to do that. If the hon. Lady provides information, we will ensure that the matter is dealt with immediately. I have made the point about winter fuel payments because it was said that we were being lethargic in the way in which we were dealing with the matter.
On capital limits, I repeat what the Secretary of State said. They will be reviewed in the current Parliament. We will make an announcement as quickly as possible. They will be reviewed more quickly than the period for which they have been frozen. The last time that there was an increase was 1990--from £6,000 to £8,000.
On inherited SERPS, the definition of "shortly" and "as soon as possible" is not as long as a piece of string, because we are obliged to do the work. Obviously, there have been inquiries by the parliamentary commissioner as well. The decision is not far off as to which way we shall proceed, but I repeat, although I should not have to do so any more: no change will take place this April. The reduction to 50 per cent. will not occur this April, so there will be no change. We have already said that in the legislation that was passed last year.
I do not think that it can be said that no decision is imminent on the major issues of winter fuel payment take-up, SERPS and the capital limits; decisions are imminent. We will announce them to the House as quickly as we can--that is what we will seek to do.
My hon. Friend the Member for Bedford (Mr. Hall) made an extremely articulate speech, as others have, regarding the position of pensioners who feel hard done by because of the 75p increase. As I said at Social Security Question Time, the only people who will get the 75p will be those who receive only £66.75. Hon. Members might shake their heads. The fact is that net average pensioner income for a single person in 1997-98 was £132. We cannot ignore SERPS. As Opposition Members have rightly said, the build-ups of occupational pensions in the 1960s and 1970s, and of SERPS, which is part and parcel of the same thing, during the 1980s, have dramatically changed total pensioner incomes. It would be stupid to ignore the position. The increase follows on into those pensions, on top of the 75p addition to the £66.75. Of course that is the average figure, and averages can be misleading. However, we make no apology for targeting those who have not achieved anywhere near those averages, such as those who are on the means test of the minimum income guarantee. We must make sure that we do our best for them.
Reference was made to the pensioner price index, as if there were not such an index. The Office for National Statistics still operates a pensioner price index, which reflects a basket of goods used by most pensioners. However, comparing the pensioner price index with the retail prices index over the past 20 years produces a significant reduction in the basic state pension of over £10 a week, so I do not think that we will be offering to use that index for the foreseeable future.
The pensioner price index excludes housing costs, including council tax. Pensioners on the minimum income guarantee, and just above it, can claim all or part of their housing costs or council tax. It is not as if they are deprived of help with their housing costs. Some will get all of their housing costs met, while others can get much of their costs met. I make no apology for the increases in the orders, which I commend to the House.
Question put:--
The House divided: Ayes 284, Noes 31.
Tellers for the Ayes:
Tellers for the Noes:
Question accordingly agreed to.
AYES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE)
Alexander, Douglas
Allen, Graham
Anderson, Donald (Swansea E)
Armstrong, Rt Hon Ms Hilary
Ashton, Joe
Atkins, Charlotte
Banks, Tony
Barnes, Harry
Barron, Kevin
Battle, John
Bayley, Hugh
Beard, Nigel
Beckett, Rt Hon Mrs Margaret
Benn, Hilary (Leeds C)
Benn, Rt Hon Tony (Chesterfield)
Benton, Joe
Bermingham, Gerald
Berry, Roger
Best, Harold
Betts, Clive
Blears, Ms Hazel
Blizzard, Bob
Blunkett, Rt Hon David
Boateng, Rt Hon Paul
Bradley, Keith (Withington)
Bradley, Peter (The Wrekin)
Bradshaw, Ben
Brinton, Mrs Helen
Brown, Russell (Dumfries)
Browne, Desmond
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burgon, Colin
Butler, Mrs Christine
Caborn, Rt Hon Richard
Campbell, Alan (Tynemouth)
Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V)
Campbell-Savours, Dale
Cann, Jamie
Caplin, Ivor
Casale, Roger
Caton, Martin
Cawsey, Ian
Clapham, Michael
Clark, Rt Hon Dr David (S Shields)
Clark, Dr Lynda
(Edinburgh Pentlands)
Clark, Paul (Gillingham)
Clarke, Charles (Norwich S)
Clarke, Eric (Midlothian)
Clarke, Rt Hon Tom (Coatbridge)
Clarke, Tony (Northampton S)
Clelland, David
Clwyd, Ann
Coaker, Vernon
Coffey, Ms Ann
Coleman, Iain
Colman, Tony
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, Yvette
Corbett, Robin
Corbyn, Jeremy
Cousins, Jim
Crausby, David
Cryer, Mrs Ann (Keighley)
Cryer, John (Hornchurch)
Cummings, John
Cunningham, Jim (Cov'try S)
Dalyell, Tam
Darling, Rt Hon Alistair
Darvill, Keith
Davey, Valerie (Bristol W)
Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli)
Davies, Geraint (Croydon C)
Davis, Rt Hon Terry (B'ham Hodge H)
Dean, Mrs Janet
Denham, John
Dismore, Andrew
Dobbin, Jim
Doran, Frank
Dowd, Jim
Eagle, Angela (Wallasey)
Eagle, Maria (L'pool Garston)
Edwards, Huw
Efford, Clive
Ennis, Jeff
Etherington, Bill
Field, Rt Hon Frank
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Fitzsimons, Lorna
Flint, Caroline
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings)
Foster, Michael J (Worcester)
Fyfe, Maria
Gardiner, Barry
Gerrard, Neil
Gibson, Dr Ian
Gilroy, Mrs Linda
Godman, Dr Norman A
Godsiff, Roger
Goggins, Paul
Golding, Mrs Llin
Gordon, Mrs Eileen
Grant, Bernie
Griffiths, Jane (Reading E)
Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S)
Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)
Grogan, John
Hain, Peter
Hall, Patrick (Bedford)
Hamilton, Fabian (Leeds NE)
Heal, Mrs Sylvia
Healey, John
Henderson, Ivan (Harwich)
Heppell, John
Hesford, Stephen
Hill, Keith
Hinchliffe, David
Hoey, Kate
Hope, Phil
Howarth, George (Knowsley N)
Howells, Dr Kim
Hoyle, Lindsay
Hughes, Ms Beverley (Stretford)
Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)
Humble, Mrs Joan
Hurst, Alan
Hutton, John
Iddon, Dr Brian
Illsley, Eric
Ingram, Rt Hon Adam
Jenkins, Brian
Jones, Rt Hon Barry (Alyn)
Jones, Helen (Warrington N)
Jones, Ms Jenny
(Wolverh'ton SW)
Jones, Dr Lynne (Selly Oak)
Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S)
Jowell, Rt Hon Ms Tessa
Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald
Keeble, Ms Sally
Keen, Alan (Feltham & Heston)
Kemp, Fraser
Kennedy, Jane (Wavertree)
Khabra, Piara S
Kidney, David
King, Ms Oona (Bethnal Green)
Kumar, Dr Ashok
Laxton, Bob
Leslie, Christopher
Levitt, Tom
Lewis, Ivan (Bury S)
Linton, Martin
Lloyd, Tony (Manchester C)
Lock, David
Love, Andrew
McAvoy, Thomas
McCabe, Steve
McCafferty, Ms Chris
McCartney, Rt Hon Ian
(Makerfield)
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonnell, John
McFall, John
McGuire, Mrs Anne
McIsaac, Shona
Mackinlay, Andrew
McNulty, Tony
Mactaggart, Fiona
McWalter, Tony
McWilliam, John
Mahon, Mrs Alice
Mallaber, Judy
Marsden, Gordon (Blackpool S)
Maxton, John
Meacher, Rt Hon Michael
Meale, Alan
Michie, Bill (Shef'ld Heeley)
Milburn, Rt Hon Alan
Miller, Andrew
Moonie, Dr Lewis
Moran, Ms Margaret
Morgan, Alasdair (Galloway)
Morgan, Ms Julie (Cardiff N)
Morley, Elliot
Morris, Rt Hon Ms Estelle
(B'ham Yardley)
Mountford, Kali
Mudie, George
Mullin, Chris
Murphy, Denis (Wansbeck)
Murphy, Jim (Eastwood)
Naysmith, Dr Doug
Norris, Dan
O'Brien, Mike (N Warks)
O'Neill, Martin
Organ, Mrs Diana
Pearson, Ian
Pendry, Tom
Perham, Ms Linda
Pickthall, Colin
Pike, Peter L
Plaskitt, James
Pollard, Kerry
Pond, Chris
Pope, Greg
Powell, Sir Raymond
Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lewisham E)
Prentice, Gordon (Pendle)
Prescott, Rt Hon John
Primarolo, Dawn
Prosser, Gwyn
Purchase, Ken
Quin, Rt Hon Ms Joyce
Quinn, Lawrie
Rammell, Bill
Rapson, Syd
Raynsford, Nick
Reed, Andrew (Loughborough)
Reid, Rt Hon Dr John (Hamilton N)
Roche, Mrs Barbara
Rogers, Allan
Rooker, Rt Hon Jeff
Rooney, Terry
Rowlands, Ted
Roy, Frank
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, Joan
Russell, Ms Christine (Chester)
Ryan, Ms Joan
Sarwar, Mohammad
Savidge, Malcolm
Sawford, Phil
Sedgemore, Brian
Shaw, Jonathan
Sheerman, Barry
Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert
Short, Rt Hon Clare
Simpson, Alan (Nottingham S)
Singh, Marsha
Skinner, Dennis
Smith, Rt Hon Andrew (Oxford E)
Smith, Angela (Basildon)
Smith, Rt Hon Chris (Islington S)
Snape, Peter
Soley, Clive
Southworth, Ms Helen
Spellar, John
Squire, Ms Rachel
Starkey, Dr Phyllis
Stoate, Dr Howard
Strang, Rt Hon Dr Gavin
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Gerry
Taylor, Rt Hon Mrs Ann
(Dewsbury)
Taylor, Ms Dari (Stockton S)
Temple-Morris, Peter
Thomas, Gareth (Clwyd W)
Thomas, Gareth R (Harrow W)
Timms, Stephen
Tipping, Paddy
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Dennis (Wolverh'ton SE)
Turner, Dr Desmond (Kemptown)
Turner, Neil (Wigan)
Twigg, Derek (Halton)
Twigg, Stephen (Enfield)
Tynan, Bill
Walley, Ms Joan
Ward, Ms Claire
Wareing, Robert N
Watts, David
White, Brian
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Wicks, Malcolm
Williams, Rt Hon Alan
(Swansea W)
Williams, Mrs Betty (Conwy)
Winnick, David
Winterton, Ms Rosie (Doncaster C)
Wise, Audrey
Wood, Mike
Woolas, Phil
Worthington, Tony
Wright, Anthony D (Gt Yarmouth)
Wyatt, Derek
Mr. David Jamieson and
Mr. Mike Hall.
NOES
Allan, Richard
Ashdown, Rt Hon Paddy
Beith, Rt Hon A J
Brake, Tom
Brand, Dr Peter
Breed, Colin
Burstow, Paul
Campbell, Rt Hon Menzies
(NE Fife)
Chidgey, David
Cotter, Brian
Davey, Edward (Kingston)
Fearn, Ronnie
Foster, Don (Bath)
George, Andrew (St Ives)
Harris, Dr Evan
Hughes, Simon (Southwark N)
Kirkwood, Archy
Llwyd, Elfyn
Maclennan, Rt Hon Robert
Michie, Mrs Ray (Argyll & Bute)
Moore, Michael
Oaten, Mark
Öpik, Lembit
Rendel, David
Sanders, Adrian
Stunell, Andrew
Taylor, Matthew (Truro)
Thomas, Simon (Ceredigion)
Tyler, Paul
Webb, Steve
Willis, Phil
Mr. Bob Russell and
Mr. David Heath.
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