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3.55 pm
Rev. Ian Paisley (North Antrim): When the Minister made his statement last week, I asked him whether we would have the report before this debate, because this debate would not be taking place if the general's report had not been issued. It seems to me unfair and unjust that some people in a part of Ireland who are not under the United Kingdom can have knowledge of the report, while the Parliament of the United Kingdom is having a debate in which none of us, except the Government, are privy to what is in it. That is outrageous. I wonder how the people of Scotland, Wales or England would like that to happen to them. It is behaviour that could not be tolerated in a proper democracy.
Mr. Richard Shepherd (Aldridge-Brownhills): Even more curious is the fact that the Secretary of State invokes the fact that the report has gone to two Governments and then tells us that, should there be another report, he will ensure that it is made available to the House. There is a profound contradiction somewhere in that. In truth, we are asked to accept what would be--in ordinary circumstances--a draconian guillotine motion, which includes reducing to one hour the consideration of Lords amendments, should there be any. That would roll up the entire production into a debate that could reduce consideration to three hours.
The Secretary of State should bring the de Chastelain report to the House. Some hon. Members have speculated about what the report might contain, but my right hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (Mr. MacKay) said that he did not wish to do so. However, the Secretary of State is creating the circumstances in which the wildest speculations accrue around his proposition. To carry this motion with the confidence of the House, the Secretary of State should ensure that the de Chastelain report is made available to the House. If he cannot, he should tell us whether it is because the Irish Government have expressed a wish that it should not be revealed.
It is not only a question of the people of Ulster being informed, as the hon. Member for North Antrim (Rev. Ian Paisley) has just said, because it is also a question of the House of Commons being informed. Today, we will undo that which we have made only recently, so, at this late stage, I urge the Secretary of State to place the de Chastelain report in the Library.
Question put and agreed to.
Order for Second Reading read.
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Peter Mandelson):
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.
I have to acquaint the House that I have it in command from the Queen to acquaint the House that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Bill, has consented to place her prerogative and interest, so far as they are affected by the Bill, at the disposal of Parliament for the purposes of the Bill.
This is a Bill that I had hoped very much not to have to introduce. I still hope that it will prove unnecessary to implement it, but that depends on changes and developments which have not yet taken place but which would need to take place speedily, and certainly over the next two or three days, to prove it unnecessary.
Last Thursday I made a statement to the House in response to the latest report of the Independent International Commission on Decommissioning. I think that I said enough about that report last Thursday for the entire House to understand that what was significant about de Chastelain's report was more what it did not say had happened than what it was able to describe had happened since the previous occasion in December when General de Chastelain had reported.
In summary, General de Chastelain and his colleagues reported that, as far as the IRA is concerned, to date they had received no information from the IRA as to when decommissioning will start.
Mr. Andrew Hunter (Basingstoke):
Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr. Mandelson:
I should like to make some progress. I said then that if further information came to light which rendered my statement out of date, I would of course inform the House. Intensive discussions continue, and there remains the possibility of a further report by General de Chastelain and his colleagues on the international body.
Mr. Hunter:
Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr. Mandelson:
In a moment. At present, I have no further substantive progress to report. It is therefore necessary to put this legislation in place, so that if it remains necessary because cross-community confidence has been undermined, we can create a pause in the operation of Northern Ireland's devolved political institutions from the end of this week.
Mr. Hunter:
I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way. In dealing with the report, will he address a point that has been put from the Opposition Benches? Have the Irish Government expressed the opinion that the report should not be made public or available to the House?
Mr. Mandelson:
Both Governments have agreed that for the time being, no further useful purpose is served by
Mr. John Bercow (Buckingham):
Will the Secretary of State give way?
Mr. Mandelson:
No, if the hon. Gentleman does not mind. There is no doubt in my mind that the necessary cross-community consensus which has existed, which supported the establishment of the Executive and of the institutions in Northern Ireland and north and south across the island of Ireland, and which is essential in creating those institutions and sustaining their existence, has been severely dented by the absence of credible progress on decommissioning--indeed, the absence of an unequivocal commitment to decommission, or a specific time frame in which decommissioning will occur.
Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North):
Has my right hon. Friend seen the remarkable article in today's edition of The Irish Times by my hon. Friend the Member for Foyle (Mr. Hume), in which he pleads with the IRA to start decommissioning and explains why that is so essential? Can my right hon. Friend give the House a guarantee that, whatever the circumstances, he will continue to do his utmost to work closely with the Irish Government on decommissioning and other aspects of the Good Friday agreement?
Mr. Mandelson:
I have read the article by the hon. Member for Foyle (Mr. Hume) in The Irish Times today, and I heard his statements at the end of last week. I shall refer to what he has said later in my speech, but, for now, suffice it to say that I have absolutely no doubt that his remarks speak for the overwhelming mass of nationalist opinion in both Northern Ireland and southern Ireland.
Mr. Bercow:
Will the Secretary of State give way?
Mr. Eric Forth (Bromley and Chislehurst):
Will the Secretary of State give way?
Mr. Mandelson:
If right hon. and hon. Members do not mind, I should like to make a little progress.
One reason why the hon. Member for Foyle has expressed his views and his impatience on decommissioning is that, like the rest of us, he has derived enormous satisfaction from the implementation of the Good Friday agreement. On every other front, the agreement has brought a better way of life for the population as a whole than Northern Ireland has ever known before. It has brought an inclusive Executive, responsible to a locally elected Assembly. There are no longer any outsiders--no more second-class citizens--in the administration of Northern Ireland.
The agreement places the principle of consent at the heart of the Northern Ireland constitution, and the Irish constitution has been amended to reflect that fact. The
agreement has enabled serious, practical north-south co-operation, which has benefited all parts of the island. It has strengthened ties within the United Kingdom and has built a new and vigorous relationship with the rest of the island of Ireland.
The devolved institutions are functioning effectively, proving that it is best to apply local minds to local problems. The agreement has brought Ministers together from different parties of hitherto highly conflicting views. Indeed, those views still conflict strongly in many respects, yet the new Ministers are working together, irrespective of the traditions from which they come, in good faith and in the interests of all the people of Northern Ireland.
The new Ministers are working co-operatively with their counterparts in Dublin, London, Edinburgh and Cardiff. The vigour that they have applied to their new responsibilities proves conclusively that self-rule is far and away the best form of government for Northern Ireland. In addition, there are all the new institutions, and we must spare no effort to ensure their long-term survival.
However, the Good Friday agreement was a finely judged deal. Every detail and every word was included in it for a reason and contributes to its overall balance. That is why every other part of the agreement has been implemented, is in the process of being implemented or has a plan in existence for its implementation in the near future. We must acknowledge the importance of having all parts of the agreement go forward together. Each part is interdependent. To maintain confidence in the agreement as a whole, it is necessary that each part moves forward.
4 pm
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