| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
Mr. Bercow: Will my hon. Friend give way?
Mr. Lidington: If my hon. Friend will forgive me, I want to conclude my remarks.
There have been very few prosecutions in recent years for cases of consensual intercourse between young men aged between 16 and 18. The police and the prosecuting authorities have operated a discretionary policy and I would not argue against that, but one of my fears is that passing the Bill would, in practice, extend that de facto tolerance to a younger group and that men in their 20s, 30s or 40s would claim--in Scotland as a defence or elsewhere in mitigation of sentence--that they believed a boy to be 16 although he was 15 or even only 14. We should not dismiss that risk lightly.
Dr. Harris:
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
The Minister of State, Home Office (Mr. Paul Boateng):
We have had a good, wide-ranging debate and one thing is clear: the Bill is not about section 28 and the responsibilities of public bodies. Nor is it about codes of practice and equal opportunity in employment. It certainly is not about gay marriage and an attack on the family. It behoves no party on either side of the House to claim to be the party of the family and we are all agreed that families are a good thing. They contain gay people and straight people and are about ties of mutual love and affection. They are, and need to be, whole and healthy institutions for the good of not only the individuals in them, but, we all surely believe, society. It is no use labelling those on one side or another of the argument pro or anti-family.
The Bill is about the equalisation of the age of consent, the protection of vulnerable people and abuse of trust. Various strands ran through the speeches of all those who contributed to the debate, but each of them--in different ways and from different sides of the argument--clearly acknowledged the importance and significance of respect for difference, in sexuality and in age. They created a sense of the importance of equality before the law, the law as a framework for our actions and people's rights and responsibilities--not only the rights of the young in relation to their own sexuality, important though that is, but the responsibility to them held by older people in positions of trust. They also made it clear that we, as legislators, must get the balance right. We try to do that. The Bill gives the House the opportunity to achieve that balance and to make a judgment. As well as respecting
differences in sexuality, we must also respect differences in deeply held opinions and convictions. Different convictions can be held with honesty. We do not need to paint each other as homophobes and bigots or as being part of a sort of homintern, or homosexual conspiracy designed to undermine civilisation and the family. We have resisted the temptation to do that in the main, but with some notable exceptions.
We all respect the importance of difference. We understand that the law has to ensure that young people can safely be different in their sexuality: safe from the predatory sexuality of older people and safe from the enormous damage that is done to young people who are made to feel guilty and ashamed of their sexuality.
We should reflect on messages. I understand the point that the right hon. Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Miss Widdecombe) made about them. However, what sort of message do we send young people when we say that their sexuality, which is real to them, is criminal, shameful and should be hidden under a bushel? We know that the mental and sexual health of those who hide such issues and are not prepared to discuss them or share their fears are at risk. There is a high price to pay in self-worth if we criminalise a group of young people because they happen to be gay.
Hon. Members have a free vote tonight. I have always taken the view that equalising the age of consent in law is the best way in which to protect young people. It does not make them vulnerable; it makes us better able to ensure that they grow up without being subject to the risks that have been discussed today. However, hon. Members will make up their own minds about that.
Important speeches have been made in the debate. It is invidious to single out individual contributions, but two struck me as especially significant: the speech of my hon. Friend the Member for Colne Valley (Kali Mountford) and that of the hon. Member for Buckingham (Mr. Bercow). The last person to deliver such a forceful and eloquent speech on the subject that we are considering from the Opposition Benches subsequently had a cup of tea with my hon. Friend the Member for Brentford and Isleworth (Ann Keen), and the rest is history. The Labour party is a broad church. I was delighted that my hon. Friend had a cup of tea with my hon. Friend the Member for Witney (Mr. Woodward), but if she is minded to have a cup of tea with the hon. Member for Buckingham, that will strain the strength of the pillars of the temple.
Mr. Bercow:
First, the hon. Member for Brentford and Isleworth (Ann Keen) will be pleased to know that there is no such prospect whatever. Secondly, I reassure the right hon. Gentleman and my right hon. and hon. Friends that, as I approach my death bed, the last words that will trip off my tongue will almost certainly be, "Vote Conservative."
Mr. Boateng:
I was just beginning to like the hon. Gentleman, but there we are.
It has been a good and serious debate. It came out of all the speeches that we must ensure that, whatever the age of consent, whatever people's sexuality or gender, we make common cause on protecting people from abuse, which is of the utmost seriousness. It is important to detach the two
things. We are not introducing proposals in relation to abuse of trust because we are giving the House the opportunity to vote on equalisation of the age of consent. My hon. Friends the Members for Bassetlaw (Mr. Ashton) and for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Mrs. Golding) both have strong track records in the House in relation to matters to do with children. It is a concern for both sides of the House. In other debates, the hon. Members for Gainsborough (Mr. Leigh) and for Aldershot (Mr. Howarth) have also expressed concerns about the protection of children. Our abuse of trust provisions seek to ensure that we have in place a workable mechanism to prevent young people--be they men or women, the prey of predators male or female, straight or gay--from being abused.
The hon. Member for Taunton (Jackie Ballard) has raised some of the teacher unions' legitimate concerns. We had to make a decision on how to cast that Bill. Of course, it will be important to monitor and to see how the provisions work in practice, but our conclusion was that the relationship between a teacher and a pupil was a particular one--the teacher is in loco parentis.
Jackie Ballard:
Will the Minister give way?
Mr. Boateng:
The hon. Lady made her point well. If she will excuse me, we have to get on.
We believe that that relationship is one of special trust that needs to be protected by law, but we keep those matters constantly under review and we will co-operate with teacher unions in developing the code of practice. It is for that reason that we decided to proceed in that way.
The right hon. Member for Maidstone and The Weald asked me some specific questions about the position in relation to Scotland, so it is right that I should answer them in some detail. By agreed convention, Westminster will not normally legislate for Scotland with regard to a devolved matter without the consent of the Scottish Parliament. In this case, and with the Parliament Act 1911 in mind, we sought the consent of the Scottish Parliament and it was given. Since this is a pre-commencement enactment, the Royal Assent having been given, if that is the will of this Parliament, the power in relation to Scotland will come into effect when the First Minister makes the necessary orders. That is how it will work in relation to Scotland, and of course Scotland will have the power to amend the legislation for Scotland if it wishes at some later time.
The House has given this matter great consideration over a number of days on three successive occasions. We have been into these matters in great detail, properly so, in Committee and on the Floor of the House. The time has arrived for us to come to a conclusion in this House, and to come to a conclusion that carries with it the full weight of the Parliament Act 1911. So when we send this measure to the other place it will take with it its own message in terms of our vote, and the other place will understand what motivates us.
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |