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Mr. Maclean: I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Gentleman's train of thought. He said that his grandmother was a teetotaller and a socialist. With regard to the Bill, how would she view today's Labour party, which is champagne socialist?
Mr. Hopkins: I am not sure that she would be terribly proud of her grandson, given that he has certainly given up the teetotal habit but retained the socialism.
When my father was a student, he entered a pub for the first time in his life and consumed half a pint of mild ale. He was so terrified of his mother that he did not go home that night because he preferred her to suspect that he had been out all night with a young woman than to know, by smelling his breath, that he had drunk alcohol.
I make that point because we must instil in everyone, including young people, a proper respect for alcohol. The extremes of my teetotal family may be too much for most, but people should be aware of the dangers of alcohol. I grew up in a family where alcohol was treated with respect and even an element of fear. When I was young, I was very cautious about the amount of alcohol that I drank, and I have remained so. I tend to count the units that I drink, as sensible drinkers do. I enjoy wine, but I try not to drink it to excess.
Many young people and, indeed, adults are not so careful and have no awareness of the dangers of alcohol. To them, drinking is simply something that they like to do and they continue to do it while they have the money and the opportunity. I have many intelligent adult friends who cannot understand why anyone would have alcohol in the house that is not automatically consumed until it is all gone. The idea of restraining oneself and putting the bottle away for another day is strange to them. We have a long way to go to educate adults as well as young people.
I remember, some years ago, the Financial Times reported a survey of business men in the City. Conservative Members may be more familiar with such people than are Labour Members. The business men were asked how much they drank, and they gave details of the whisky that they drank. After the survey, the researcher asked, "But what about beer and wine?" They replied, "Oh, we don't count beer and wine." Only whisky was counted as a serious drink.
There is a case for much more education. We must go beyond the Bill and, at a later stage, discuss wider aspects of the alcohol problem. Internal constraints are essential, and we build them in through schools and parents, but external constraints are also necessary. I would not go to the extremes that exist in America, where restrictions on alcohol consumption in some states come close to prohibition and any alcohol consumption is frowned upon. Those constraints go too far and spoil the responsible enjoyment of alcohol.
I have an interest in these matters because I am an active member of the all-party group on alcohol misuse. It has been suggested that I might stand for chair of that group because there is a vacancy. I am not suggesting that I should win that post because, as hon. Members will know, elections are fought very fiercely on this side of the House--
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst):
Order. We ought to keep the hustings out of this debate.
Mr. Hopkins:
I apologise, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
The all-party group does valuable work and strongly supports the Bill. I have also been in touch with Alcohol Concern, as have other hon. Members.
I am the patron of a group in my county, called Bedfordshire Alcohol Services in the Community, which is concerned about these matters. I work hard to try to promote the group's ideas. It recently launched an initiative to help to promote alcohol awareness among schoolchildren, and hopefully that will reinforce the measures in the Bill, and make young people aware of the dangers of alcohol and encourage them to be sensible and responsible in their approach to alcohol as they grow older. So I am involved at local level.
I also see the terrible effects of alcohol through the work of another local group, Noah Enterprises, which used to be the Luton day centre for the homeless. It deals with people whose lives have been wrecked by alcohol and who live in the streets. They are taken in by the organisation and gradually rehabilitated until they can lead useful and productive lives. The group does extraordinarily good work, but it would be less necessary if the damage that alcohol causes were not so great and it could persuade many more people not to drink in a way that leads to such a life.
I support the Bill very strongly because I have seen at first hand the effects of alcohol and been made aware throughout my life of its dangers. At the same time, I appreciate that drinking is normal and pleasurable for most of us. I could speak at greater length, but I have probably said enough. I would add only that I am rather disappointed that the hon. Member for New Forest, West (Mr. Swayne) is no longer in the Chamber, because I wanted to ask him whether he still looks much younger than his years and whether he has a portrait in the attic.
Mr. Maclean:
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. When Madam Speaker was in the Chair this morning, she said that she had not received any request from the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland for a statement on the possible suspension of the Northern Ireland Assembly. I have just heard on the 1 o'clock news that such a suspension is expected within the hour. It is not too late for the Secretary of State to make a statement on the momentous changes. The legislation did not come into effect at an exact time. Indeed, suspension might not have occurred this weekend. Now that it is expected to happen, I hope that you agree that it is important to interrupt our proceedings briefly with such a statement, especially considering that--
Mr. Deputy Speaker:
Order. The right hon. Gentleman must not get into argument. So far as the Chair is concerned, the situation is unchanged, but those on the Treasury Bench will have heard his words.
Mr. Oliver Heald (North-East Hertfordshire):
The hon. Member for Luton, North (Mr. Hopkins) treated us to a speech in which he explained that he comes from a family that is both teetotal and musical. He is obviously remaining true to his genes in his work in the House, because I notice that next week he has secured an Adjournment debate entitled "Support for Jazz" and, as he told us, he is running for the office of chairman of the all-party group on alcohol misuse. It just shows that not all conditioning is social and that there is something genetic, too.
I congratulate the hon. Member for Pudsey (Mr. Truswell) on his success in the ballot and, along with my hon. Friends the Members for Meriden (Mrs. Spelman), for South Staffordshire (Sir P. Cormack), for Daventry (Mr. Boswell), for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Mr. Collins), for New Forest, West (Mr. Swayne) and for Bromsgrove (Miss Kirkbride), on raising such an important subject, which was prompted by the tragic death of his young constituent David Knowles. The Opposition as a whole join in expressing the deepest sympathies to the Knowles family.
As the hon. Member for Pudsey explained, David had purchased alcohol on two occasions in a short time immediately prior to meeting his death. He was described by everyone as a serious and sensible young man, and the purchase was very much out of character. The subsequent prosecution of those who sold the alcohol to him was not proceeded with because the Licensing Act 1964 is out of date in the way in which it deals with the offence of selling alcohol to those under 18 years old.
I imagine that, when the Act was passed--it was a milestone, consolidating previous legislation and an attempt to control the problems of licence holders and alcohol generally--the world was rather different. Public houses were tenanted; it was the era before the beer orders that led to so many joining chain ownership and management arrangements. Supermarkets were far less obviously a source of alcohol, and probably far fewer off-licences were owned by chains. In 1964, when the Act was passed, it was acceptable for it to state that the licence holder or the servant of the licence holder would be the people guilty of an offence if they sold alcohol to people under 18.
The background has changed since then, and it is recognised by the Government, the industry and all those involved that it is necessary for the 1964 Act to be overhauled. The Brewers and Licensed Retailers Association and others prepared detailed papers for the Home Office two years ago. The parliamentary beer club has produced proposals, and the Government's own proposals are thought to be due in March.
There is a wide consensus of support for the Bill and for the view that the 1964 Act should be amended. The industry--the Portman Group, the BLRA and others--fully support the Bill. Alcohol Concern is supportive, although it wants reform to go further.
The Bill introduces a sensible reform. It is aimed at reducing under-age drinking by making sure that those who sell alcohol to people under the age of 18 can be prosecuted. In many ways, it re-enacts the old law, but I agree with the hon. Member for Pudsey that it does so in a more readily accessible form.
The way in which the Bill is set out is commendable. It widens the ambit of the offence of selling to cover sales by any person in licensed premises, and therefore meets the problem of the loophole that the hon. Gentleman outlined. It reinforces the policy of "two strikes and you're out": licensees who have a second conviction may be liable to forfeit their licences.
During the debate, important points were made. My hon. Friend the Member for South Staffordshire said that the hon. Member for Pudsey had made one of the best speeches introducing a private Member's Bill that he had heard. I agree, and I would add that the debate that followed was rather a good one for a Friday, as other speakers amplified the points made by the hon. Gentleman.
My hon. Friend the Member for Meriden, reinforcing the hon. Gentleman's comments, cited statistics showing the extent to which alcohol is being abused by young people. She pointed to a substantial rise in alcohol abuse. The Schools Health Education Unit survey showed that 30 per cent. of year 8 pupils had drunk alcohol in the previous week, as had 50 per cent. of those in year 10. Statistics show that lager is the favourite drink for men and wine for women.
The quantity of alcohol consumed by young people has increased. In the 14 and 15 age group, 20 per cent. of males and 10 per cent. of females had drunk more than 10 units in the previous week. Off-licences are the most popular source. I can add that a recent London survey showed that more than half of 14 to 16-year-olds said that when they had purchased alcohol, they had not been asked for their ID.
The figures thus show that there has been a substantial rise in alcohol abuse by young people, particularly since the 1980s. My hon. Friend the Member for Meriden reported evidence showing that if people start drinking young, the chances that they will become addicted to alcohol are greater. That is particularly worrying. That is true not only of alcohol but other addictions. However, alcohol leads not only to the health problems about which we have heard but other serious problems.
1.32 pm
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